Vostok 2416b troubleshooting tips

[Paumanok]

Hi all,
Its been a month or so since I've been on here. I've added a couple clean and lubes under my belt, one very successful, the other a little finicky, both on the 2414A movements.

I got a 2416B watch off ebay that was sold as non running. its got a gorgeous face but the movement hid some awful secrets...

There are some issues with the automatic winding complication but I'm focusing on getting it running first as I think the auto complication *should* work.

The most obvious issue I faced was a mangled center wheel from what seems like an even less experienced watch repairer than I. I have extras so I pulled it down, cleaned, lubed, and put back just the keyless works, winding assembly, and gear train. With the replacement center wheel, the pallet fork will bounce back and forth just nicely when barely nudged, but when you add the balance assembly, it barely wants to move. I've double checked the top and bottom balance jewels, tested with a different balance, and tested the original balance in another watch (works beautifully), and pulled it down and reassembled and made sure the drive moves smoothly sans pallet when wound.

I know it will be near impossible to remotely diagnose so I'm just looking for some methodical diagnosis tips to see what could be going wrong.

Some additional observations: The balance wheel had very little end shake. I noticed the first wheel had a slight bend to it, but when running sans balance, it didn't seem to cause a bind. I have extras of those so that can be my next step to replace.

Any tips are super appreciated.

[Nucejoe]

Hi,  So I would remove the work, instal the balance without the fork, get the balance wheel to turn, this reveals if lower balance jewel is faulty, if not faulty, instal other fork( off of runing movement), install balance and cock. Give it good wind. 

Pushing the barrel wheel we get an idea if mainspring needs help.

Pushing any gear of the train you have access to, is a test producing data. 

Roller table may rub on the fork horn, impulse get stuck on either side of the fork.

 Eliminating is full course approach at this point.

Regards

 

 

 

.

[yankeedog]

vostoks are notorious for end shake problems.due to loose manufacturing tolerances they often they leave the factory with a shim under the balance cock.the previous mangler may have omitted this shim during reassembly.make a shim out of tin foil see what happens.

[Paumanok]

10 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi,  So I would remove the work, instal the balance without the fork, get the balance wheel to turn, this reveals if lower balance jewel is faulty, if not faulty, instal other fork( off of runing movement), install balance and cock. Give it good wind. 

Pushing the barrel wheel we get an idea if mainspring needs help.

Pushing any gear of the train you have access to, is a test producing data. 

Roller table may rub on the fork horn, impulse get stuck on either side of the fork.

 Eliminating is full course approach at this point.

Regards

 

 

 

.

 

So, With the fork removed, I noticed the balance wheel will move dial up, but not dial down. There seems to be miles of end shake on the balance wheel. I replaced the lower balance jewel with the same behavior. 

5 hours ago, yankeedog said:

vostoks are notorious for end shake problems.due to loose manufacturing tolerances they often they leave the factory with a shim under the balance cock.the previous mangler may have omitted this shim during reassembly.make a shim out of tin foil see what happens.

I pulled a shim from another movement, with little change
There's just so much end shake, I don't know where the space could come from. The pivots look fine on inspection. I might try a different jewel.

[Nucejoe]

You said it,  Where did all the space come from?  

Some jewel housings can be moved inward/out , how about this one?

Might the cock have been bent?  Previous mangler  

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paumanok]

20 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

You said it,  Where did all the space come from?  
Some jewel housings can be moved inward/out , how about this one?
Might the cock have been bent?  Previous mangler [emoji3] 
Regards
 
 
 
 
 
 

I know a few revisions of this movement has a jewel housing that can easily be removed. This particular one looks like it's pressed in rather than held with screws. Another feature is that there's a raised part on other movements that have the removable housing, Including the one on this teardown: https://forums.watchuseek.com/f54/vostok-2416b-service-notes-240805.html

I feel like there might be a balance wheel made for this model, and the amount of endshake is due to a wrong combination of wheel and jewel housing, but I have a feeling it shouldn't matter.

I wish It was easier to find some revision information because I don't understand why this is the only 24xx movement I've seen that doesn't have those screws holding the jewel housing.



Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Paumanok
Uploaded pictures from phone, typed with keyboard

[Nucejoe]

Julesborel.com   says, calib 2009 fits 2412 .  Balancestaff.com   shows about .0.35 mm difference in staff length between the two, which perhaps wouldn,t matter as you say, yet other factors may furthure exacrebate excessive end shake.

As far as I can tell the picture shows the housing flanged.   It wouldn,t let housing move inward.

I wouldn,t recommend flipping end stones over, not with this kif shock springs, affraid would renders the jewel loose inside the housing

Thought not a solution, we may try outbound shimming of the cock- mainplate, to lower the upper jewel assembly.

Regards