UPDATE Mind boggling escapement issue

[saswatch88]

OK the one movement that both balances were tight in, i replaced the balance staff and used a different cock from another parts movement, i set the watch in beat and now its running like a champ, the other one i got to work but not 100% i replaced one of the banking pins but balance stops cold at one position, if i leave the movement laying on the table both dial up and down it runs perfect, as soon as i pick it up it stops. i noticed the balance is wobbling so i think roller jewel is getting stuck on pallet safety do too excessive wobble. i def feel something rubbing at the stopping point. i think this may be due to a bent staff.

Edited March 17, 2019 by saswatch88

[Nucejoe]

To check for bent staff, I remove the HS, the fork and fork bridge, instal the BW back in, therefore, the BW is free to spin as in truing caliper, then, I spin the wheel by air puffer, thence can observe how balance is the roller table and the wheel. Or how bent is the staff.

If the staff turns out to be bent, the wheel is already stripped for whatever operation is to follow.

[Nucejoe]

Which banking pin did you replace? How did you adjust it for position? At what point dose the BW stop ? Dose it get locked when it stops?  

Furnish more data please. 

 

[saswatch88]

15 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Which banking pin did you replace? How did you adjust it for position? At what point dose the BW stop ? Dose it get locked when it stops?  

Furnish more data please. 

 

i replaced the inner banking pin, and i went off of the position of the last one, but i adjusted the screw while looking at the lock of the escape tooth on the pallet jewel. i made sure the pallet fork was resting on the banking pin as i turned it. the balance wheel stops at like a certain angle and sometimes just me holding. for example iam holding it it stops as soon as i put it down it starts to tick, pick it up again it stops. it does seem to lock but the escapement does not lock, i know its not an issue with pallet or escape wheel because like i said it ran overnight now problem sitting on my bench. the BW does wobble so iam thinking a bent upper pivot, bottom looks fine but cant see the upper till i take the HS off

[Nucejoe]

Dose it run in static positions, crown up, fcae down at 45 degree angle?

Could pivot be slipping out of upper  jewel hole.

[saswatch88]

stops at 45 degree for sure, but it stops when i handle the movement. laying down not touching it it runs perfect, but BW still wobbles. and when i pick it up it stops, put it down it starts. sometimes i can get it to run holding it but def. stops at 45 degree tilt on the 9 oclock position. i think since its wobbling any kind of movement that allows the BW to tilt too much the roller jewel gets stuck on the safety pin. you see the safety pin on these movements dont sit under the fork. it sticks straight up at a 90 degree angle parallel to the safety jewel

[Nucejoe]

You always have the option to replace the cock- balance with the good runing one( other one), that is why I always recommend the two or more of the same movement.

Lets get back to the one you are working on,  that stops, tilted at 45 degrees  on 9 O,clock position.

If your diagnosis is right, the roller pin gets stuck on safety pin since the two get closer, if tilted on 9 oclock,  what saith you should happen if tilted at 45 deg, positioned on 3 Oclock, where expectedly (Roller and safety get farther apart ) . 

If I am right, 3 or 9 O,clock positions should make little or no difference. 

Regards

 

 

[saswatch88]

13 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

You always have the option to replace the cock- balance with the good runing one( other one), that is why I always recommend the two or more of the same movement.

Lets get back to the one you are working on,  that stops, tilted at 45 degrees  on 9 O,clock position.

If your diagnosis is right, the roller pin gets stuck on safety pin since the two get closer, if tilted on 9 oclock,  what saith you should happen if tilted at 45 deg, positioned on 3 Oclock, where expectedly (Roller and safety get farther apart ) . 

If I am right, 3 or 9 O,clock positions should make little or no difference. 

Regards

 

 

you know what you are right it should not make a difference, all i know is when the wheel stops, i take my finger and operate the wheel back and forth in tiny increments and i feel something rubbing on that spot, and i cant see what it is. i will have to test with another wheel or cock, i cant use the other one because that one is running perfect i have other movements that i can pull parts from. I buy as many waltham 1907s as i can.

[Nucejoe]

6 hours ago, saswatch88 said:

you know what you are right it should not make a difference, all i know is when the wheel stops, i take my finger and operate the wheel back and forth in tiny increments and i feel something rubbing on that spot, and i cant see what it is. i will have to test with another wheel or cock, i cant use the other one because that one is running perfect i have other movements that i can pull parts from. I buy as many waltham 1907s as i c

Lets put some ink on the safety pin, let run for a while, some ink should get on the part the pin is rubbing on. 

We don,t know what all previous repairman have done, bent a parts? or fitted in the wrong staff? .....etc.  This may not be an easy diagnostic.

I try to work with you to find the fault.

[saswatch88]

yes good idea!!! I could just remove everything and leave balance and pallet in order to see better but iam too lazy to reassemble the movement again LOL. But i like going through the motions and finding the faults instead of rushing to replace parts, its a better learning experience, and it makes you a better watch repairer. i dont think its the safety pin because did same thing using a different pallet, but it would be nice to know whats hitting what, i was thinking maybe watercolor paint instead it will come off easier.

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, saswatch88 said:

yes good idea!!! I could just remove everything and leave balance and pallet in order to see better but iam too lazy to reassemble the movement again LOL. But i like going through the motions and finding the faults instead of rushing to replace parts, its a better learning experience, and it makes you a better watch repairer. i dont think its the safety pin because did same thing using a different pallet, but it would be nice to know whats hitting what, i was thinking maybe watercolor paint instead it will come off easier.

Them wishi machines, shows the guts.