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Fake Omega

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I despare sometimes,  there was a fake Omega Seamaster,  you know one of those rubbish gents gold plated ones the ones with the hallmark on the back of the case jobs.

He listed it as ............

Vintage 'OMEGA SEAMASTER'
GENTS WRISTWATCH  with Date
In 'Omega' CASE which needs attention.
 
Watch In PERFECT WORKING ORDER
'Antimagnetic' with good condition Strap
 
BUT - Advised as not believed to be genuine
 
PLEASE USE PHOTOS AS YOUR DESCRIPTION...
do you know he got 34 bids , and it sold for £151 .
is it me, am I getting it wrong somewhere,  I'll have to rummage through my draws, as I'm sure I've got some fake watches somewhere.
 

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But, someone the purchaser knows will spot this on his arm and comment about his Omega watch. It's a game that some indulge in. Pretending to be someone they're not. Likely as not, pretending to be sane when they're not either! The seller quite cleverly palmed this fake off by doing his minimum required legal bit by identifying it as a likely fake. A fool and his money......

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Have you never heard of this saying?

Keeping up with the Joneses is an idiom in many parts of the English-speaking world referring to the comparison to one's neighbour as a benchmark for social class or the accumulation of material goods. To fail to "keep up with the Joneses" is perceived as demonstrating socio-economic or cultural inferiority.

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There is another aspect to this ''fake watch syndrome''.

How many times have we seen somebody post pics and info of their family heirloom, only for another 'expert' to say I think that is fake. Quite often there is no supporting evidence other than ''it doesn't look right to me''.

If people are going to denounce a watch as fake or even cast aspersions, then they should follow it up with some reasons.

Mud sticks and it's much more difficult to verify the authenticity than it is to say 'that's fake'. It seems to happen a lot with vintage military watches which can have any number of genuine mods.

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To be fair that case or dial might be gen, the movement looks like an AS1130 to me, not a movement omega have used I believe.

as for fake/rep watches, some of the ones coming out of China are actually very very good, running eta movements at 28,800bph, spot on lume, correct colour lume (Omega use green and blue) which is superluminova ( must be be as it glows all night), cases have serial numbers etched into them, Christ the Rolex reps have even got the coroner laser etched into the crystal as per gen.

there is a massive market in reps and rep servicing etc, you still get canal street knock offs but there is a list of “trusted dealers”in China that are trusted for a reason. 

I think they are abit if fun, I’ve got a few high quality ones of my own, my favourite is my brietling SOA 42, I got this before i off load 2k on  then gen, it’s a try before you buy kinda thing, it’s worked for me, as I’m happy to pop to my local AD for the gen SOA now I’ve had time with a like for like for all intents and purposes model on my wrist for a little while, or then again is it worth dropping 2k on something that apart from a movement with a bit engraving on it is essentially the same as the rep??????

personal taste I know, and i know a lot of people scorn reps/fakes but if you haven’t seen today’s high end reps hold off on knocking them for build quality etc as I think you’ll be very surprised.

heres a picture of a cheapie that was purchased off DH Gate for a few quid as project watch, runs a 21,600bph 21j movement so not as per gen.

image.jpg

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 Hi   The prime objective of a watch is to tell the time  and be accurate in doing so, If the watch cost thousands or a few quid is down to the personal taste of the wearer and how he percieves his status like OH says "keeping up with the Jonese's". Personally  My working watch is  a Lorus Lumibrite I have had to replace the movement  once but it is accurate. Dress watch  a 1930/40's Omega gold case and strap. Inherited. only worn occasionally I have loads of others in the cabinet. Seikos and other inc the fake Rolex as examples of the art of watch making. So as I said its all personal and down to taste, If you want to spend money on a watch for the price of a car thats down to you .

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3 hours ago, transporter said:

To be fair that case or dial might be gen, the movement looks like an AS1130 to me, not a movement omega have used I believe.

as for fake/rep watches, some of the ones coming out of China are actually very very good, running eta movements at 28,800bph, spot on lume, correct colour lume (Omega use green and blue) which is superluminova ( must be be as it glows all night), cases have serial numbers etched into them, Christ the Rolex reps have even got the coroner laser etched into the crystal as per gen.

 there is a massive market in reps and rep servicing etc, you still get canal street knock offs but there is a list of “trusted dealers”in China that are trusted for a reason. 

 I think they are abit if fun, I’ve got a few high quality ones of my own, my favourite is my brietling SOA 42, I got this before i off load 2k on  then gen, it’s a try before you buy kinda thing, it’s worked for me, as I’m happy to pop to my local AD for the gen SOA now I’ve had time with a like for like for all intents and purposes model on my wrist for a little while, or then again is it worth dropping 2k on something that apart from a movement with a bit engraving on it is essentially the same as the rep??????

personal taste I know, and i know a lot of people scorn reps/fakes but if you haven’t seen today’s high end reps hold off on knocking them for build quality etc as I think you’ll be very surprised.

 heres a picture of a cheapie that was purchased off DH Gate for a few quid as project watch, runs a 21,600bph 21j movement so not as per gen.

image.jpg

Though I understand many members can be picky about reps and I definitely don't uphold  forgery, I must agree with transporter.

Another thing about rep watches is that they can be a really good starting point for getting our hands wet on modding.

I've learned a lot while trying to modify some of those reps so that they could look like vintage models (I'm a vintage addict) ... sort of a "challenge" game.

Of course I won't ever sell those watches (private use only) and I always point out that they are just copies when I wear one of them.

And I always include some mistakes in my watches so that they could be easily spotted as copies (supposing that I could do perfect copies ... and I dont have the skills).

But that is still forgery and I know that ... that's why those watches are for my personal use only and I definitely say NO if anybody (even close friends) ask me to make one for him.

 

Those days I'm more and more starting with cheap gen watches to create my own designs (like the "JACINTHE by Polaire" that I'll show on that forum when finished) and that is much more rewarding ... plus it's fair and lawful.

But I have learned a big lot while working on those reps (apart from the cheap chinese movements that are 90% crap).

 

Below are some pics of 2 watches I have built,  just to give an idea of what can be done with some simple tools, a few skills and obstinacy ... of course I won't mind if the moderators delete those pics.

 

70ies 5500 Air-King 

I started with the same cheap Air-king transporter showed above, reworked the case to be closer to the real dimensions, drilled the lugs, put a plexi and built the dial from a blank steek dial plate

The movement is a handwind Raketa from the 70ies on which I had to thin the hour wheel, minute wheel and cannon pinion so that it could take the rep hands

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60ies A/6538

Almost everything has been modified on that watch ... dial and bezel with "german silver" being home made

The movement is a Miyota 8215 so the rep Mercedes hands fitted without any modd

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I'm surprised these fakes are so easily available. Tag Heuer/ Hublot have a massive lawsuit running in the US against the Chinese suppliers and even renowned cheapie supplier Alibaba is suing.

Added to which anything posted which is subject to import duty is usually scanned and if found to be counterfeit is seized (in the UK anyway).

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Many years ago while working in Axminster, its famous for the carpets. A few of the factory lorry drivers would travel abroad. Many times Axminster would be flooded with fake high-class watches, they all wanted Rolex. I have seen some junk, which has Rolex on the dials that would make your hair stand up.

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In addition to my previous post ...

 

When  you want to rework a watch case stainless steel is much easier, so the biggest problem I have now that I work on gen watches is that it is not really easy to get nice stainless steel cases for my projects (most of cheap watches have chrome platted nickel cases).

For example ...

I have recently bought a NOS 7733 for a really good price and I'm working on the design of an original dial for it (I will build it myself).

But I'm still searching for a case to put all that in ... I have skinny wrists so I need a small case (nothing over 39mm - 36/38 if possible) but, apart from paying $200 and over, the only chrono stainless steel cases I can find are 40/42 so far too big ... or ugly ones.

So I will probably, in the end, buy a cheap 39mm fake daytona for $50 ... then :

- throw everything but the case and crown to the bin

- rework the case to make it less "daytona style"

- remove the coronet from the crown and rework the pushers to the design I want

- rework the rehaut so that it can take a plexi (or make a new rehaut and graft it to the case)

- put a plexi + home made retaining ring and rotating bezel

- case the Valjoux with my home made dial

- ENJOY my new and unique watch

All this, apart from the Valjoux that I paid less than $220 shipped, will cost me about $80.

So my unique working 38mm chrono for $300 ... + a bunch of work hours ;)

Without a rep case I would have to pay over $450/500 or more

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That Seamaster is a classic vintage counterfeit- of European origin I would guess as I've heard these watches were pawned off on tourists back in the day.  There's a bit of history in that watch there and I think it's interesting because of it; regardless I'm surprised the market (I'm assuming eBay) allowed the sale to proceed.

Like many on this forum, I've seen more than my fair share of counterfeit pieces.  Supposedly they damage the brand which they are posing as, although I'm dubious of this.  The data on counterfeits seems to be a bit one sided- the assumption being that they devalue the brand name and compromise sales.  Everyone I've seen whose had a counterfeit watch would never spend the money needed for the real McCoy.  At the same time they unwittingly became brand ambassadors when the watch was on their wrist.  I've fixed a few of these counterfeits and doing so just whets my appetite for the real thing.  This is just my personal experience though and obviously should be taken with a grain of salt.  I do know that when I finally do get my Tudor Submariner or Rolex GMT I'll never tell anyone it's anything other than a fake- I wouldn't want them thinking I'm wearing $6K+ on my wrist!

Back to the Seamaster though- whoever bought it obviously overpaid by a about 146 pounds. <_<

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On 2/28/2019 at 11:08 AM, RyMoeller said:

.......Supposedly they damage the brand which they are posing as, although I'm dubious of this. 

Yeah.  No way as a pensioned public servant could I afford any luxury watch worth having.  If I try and build an imitation dive watch to wear around the house, I haven't cost Company X a penny as they weren't in line to get one from me in the beginning!

Maybe someday on the used market, but not likely.

I'd have my watch done except somebody pulled the video!  I've cut that stem 5 times and it's still too short!  I'll have a question about  that if the new ones ever show up.

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I'm not sure what the ubove post is referring to but.

I've just come across a 1970s /1930s fake/ replica omega wristwatch. 

It's in good order,  tv shape nice running movement. 

I'm exited about putting it on Ebay,  I will try and take a picture for you all.

We will see , purly out of interest to see what it makes, and who buys it.

 

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On 2/28/2019 at 12:08 PM, RyMoeller said:

 

Supposedly they damage the brand which they are posing as, although I'm dubious of this.  The data on counterfeits seems to be a bit one sided- the assumption being that they devalue the brand name and compromise sales.  Everyone I've seen whose had a counterfeit watch would never spend the money needed for the real McCoy. 

I can definitely see it would negatively affect the brand.  Lets face it, for someone wearing a Rolex, there is a very good chance being seen with a Rolex is a big part of it for them - that is really damaged if everyone is sporting perfect Rolex replicas.  Then there is resale, if there were no knock offs, resale prices would be higher as knock off's introduce risk into the used market.   I'd be leering about buying a used expensive watch, to point where I probably wouldn't for this reason.  So I just proved (with a case study one lol)  the damage done - less of resale market will impact the brand   I hardly see counterfeit products as being "brand ambassadors".  These are not copies, tributes or replicas, they are counterfeit products, something that is criminal in most jurisdictions

 

On 2/28/2019 at 6:48 AM, watchweasol said:

 Hi   The prime objective of a watch is to tell the time  and be accurate in doing so, 

With the time presented on every phone and computer, I'd argue for an expensive watch, telling the time is not the primary objective.  

Edited by measuretwice

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If a fake watch only sells because it has Rolex etc branding then it is a complete cheat. 

Shame really because a lot of these fakes have merit in their own right as a nice piece of engineering and would probably sell anyway. 

As mentioned it is the resale market which suffers due to people trying to sell them as genuine products.

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I paid nearly £200 for this at a watch auction. Looked good with some staining to the dial etc. Only when I got it home I found out what it really was. They don't like you taking the backs of watches in the auction house. Wonder why!  Anyway had to apply pressure. Trade description act threats and eventually got my money back..Yes its an 1130.

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Unfortunatly  the counterfiet , replica, tribute  watches will always be a problem to the realtime retail market primarily because of the prohibitive cost of the real thing which the average man cannot justify unless he is an abject poseur then cost versus street cred is not a problem, some would rather get into debt to maintain a style image.  Having been abroad and seen and handled most of the so called high end replicas they are very good although almost all are a little on the light weight side but never the less very good and as mentioned before would sell on their own merit at a reasonable cost. But style is everything these days. On looking at these watches I notice the bracelet is usually a give away with the laminations being visible on the edges the real things are solid and highly finished. Also the weight of the watch, but they are getting better using alloys to match the weight, so the old saying still holds sway that is Caveat Emptor  (buyer beware) if it looks too good look again. All said and done the choice is yours. To me a nice watch is just that, some of the Russian watches are good  as are the Japanese, Chinese, American etc. The Swiss are the bench mark. Having said all that there are some glued together horrors out there, clocks as well I myself treat locks and watches on their engineering merit even the plastic ones . Consider the workmanship required to produce a die to produce the little gears and the stampings of the plastic plates. clever what. 

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