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CUSTOM DECAL DIAL TUTORIAL


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On 2/5/2020 at 8:42 AM, AndyHull said:

You could of course create a hybrid of the two methods, with some objects created from scratch and some created from an image of the original dial.

From this....

37879914004_9113b0e080_k_d.jpg&f=1&nofb=

We get this.

 

Skyliner30.100Centre1.79Round_svg.thumb.png.9515f2adc9adfb4d869cf33d4baec408.png

Not perfect, but with a little more work, I think it could be reasonably presentable.

xruc69oSyT0kz33tA4Lgg0b70LIj11sS3u5kVQ4z


You then run into the question, at what point do you replace?
Is the second watch above still better in original condition?... Maybe, but what if it had lost all of the lettering?

Does it matter that the two dials and my version are all very slightly different?

In the top version for example, and my version,  the text stretches from the six O'clock to the four O'clock, but in the second watch, the text spans two of the radials, so presumably these are pad printed from different cliches, and therefore probably manufactured in different years, and/or are different models.

Skyliner30.100Centre1.79Round.svg 39.92 kB · 1 download

I don't think there is any harm is replicating an original dial as long as you hang on to the original. That way it stays with the watch and can be put back if someone in the future desired it.

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24 minutes ago, FLwatchguy73 said:

I don't think there is any harm is replicating an original dial as long as you hang on to the original. That way it stays with the watch and can be put back if someone in the future desired it.

I agree, so long as the original is preserved if avaialble, and there is no intention to deceive, then I see not problem with fitting a replacement dial. If a replacement is passed off as original however, then there is a problem. 

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Continuing with the guilloché experiments, here is a coloured version, with 128 points and a little manipulation of the "handles" on the object, as well as the stroke and fill. Bear in mind, this is a single object, even though it appears to have multiple concentric parts. Play with the .SVG yourself to see what I mean.

 

396357391_GuillocheBlue30.100Centre1.79Round20Grey_svg.thumb.png.b4ecc1f3b412e4745751d5b7c5fd4598.png

GuillocheBlue30.100Centre1.79Round20%Grey.svg

Incidentally the "rosette" in the pocket watch styled dial I posted a couple of pages back uses the same method, but with a six sided shape. The three pointed object at the 12 O'Clock position on the orange dive watch dial also used this trick,  so as you can see that there are quite a number of possible ways to manipulate these objects, all of which produce significantly different patterns.

The way this works in Inkscape is similar to an engine turning machine with a single "rosette", or pattern wheel. 

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You can of course layer these designs too.

773754172_GuillocheBlue30.100Centre1.79Round20Grey_svg.thumb.png.df3f64685dcc659391f385f6a7fa083e.png

So starting with a 60 spoke design, we can add a 12 spoke one.

256302204_GuillocheBlue-2-30.100Centre1.79Round20Grey_svg.thumb.png.a9e4363ef232dde2e726c78aa1b2028e.png

We end up with a complex design with no numbers on, in a kind of Delftware blue style,  arranged such that you could actually tell the time to the second using the "points" of the two rosettes.

717594574_GuillocheBlue-2-30.100Centre1.79Round20Gold_svg.thumb.png.17a46ed78d4483bf2c59b2fd36a51449.png

Here is the same design in "gold" on a dark ground.

If you zoom on on the "crown" logo at the top, you will find it is actually made from gears, (using the path effects tool).

88x31.png

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GuillocheBlue30.100Centre1.79Round20%Grey.svg

Edited by AndyHull
Additional image added.
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Of course you don't have to stick to "sensible" colours either.

GuillocheDoubleSoftGears-30.100Centre1.79Round_svg.thumb.png.3c76b405aadd64bb247f44f902988101.png

Here is a nice trippy 1970s take on the colour scheme.

Import your design  to Gimp, which has more scope for colour manipulation and you can have loads of fun with it.

Bear in mind though that, that as I pointed out before Gimp works with raster images, not vector, so we loose resolution when we scale this.

I've included the tidied up "pre-trip" blue SVG for you to play with too.

GuillocheBlue30.100Centre1.79Round20%Grey.svg

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10 hours ago, AndyHull said:

I like that. Now if it was blue.... :P

I presume it fits something with the crown at 12 and the seconds at six, but rotated through 90 degrees clockwise.

Have you got something suitable in mind?

Ask, and ye shall receive!

2020555315_s-l1600(3).thumb.jpg.f2eb0cebf7824325797467a00005113e.jpg

Image courtesy of Ebay.

It's for the ETA 6497 or the Seagull ST 3600 movements. Makes for a large wrist watch, but totally worth it, IMO!

 

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Most of the patterns I have experimented with so far have been circular, but not all dials are round, so what can you do if you wand to fit a round peg into a square hole?

This is where "Path Effects", and in particular, "Lattice Deformations" come in to play.

The Lattice Deformation allows you to constrain a pattern within another shape.

There are other ways to do this, but this is probably the easiest.

If we take a 12 sided "curved polygon" similar to the ones in the previous examples, and add a couple of path effects to it, we can create some interesting designs.

537526190_LaticeDeformation2at2020-02-1507-42-10.thumb.png.e04a02c01e19f7c895da37e4528e1a73.png

The first effect adds the "knot" to our simple shape, and careful tweaking of the line properties (the fill and stoke widths, colours, textures and graidients) give a softness to the edges. 

Rectangular1_svg.thumb.png.7d50db250ed0eff174ec78a8da6bb33b.png


If we then add the "Lattice Deformation 2" path effect, we can constrain our design to more  rectangular shape. Note the use of the tick-boxes to keep the effect symmetrical about both the horizontal and vertical axis.

We simply pull the "handles" around till we get the effect that we want.

Rectangular1.svg

Edited by AndyHull
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CheVer1.0-30.100Centre1.79RoundWhite_svg.thumb.png.464127623ea41239e8cd73101bebd6c9.pngMore fun with Soviet era kitch, and public domain .SVG images. 

CheVer1.0-30.100Centre1.79RoundWhite.svg


Before you ask, no, Luch, so far as I am aware, never produced a "Che" manual wind watch in his style, but Poljot produced something similar, and  POBEDA (ZIM/ZYM) seemed to have done a couple of different styled Che Guevara models.

As with the my other creations, you are free to use them as you please. I've stuck with a single colour this time, and the above .PNG is scaled to allow printing at around 30mm at 1440 dpi.but looks fine at 600 dpi.  so this should suit inkjet, laserjet or pad printing.

You may need to remove the Luch logo if you are planning on selling anything related to the two "Luch" style designs, unless of course they are being fitted to a genuine Luch watch, in which case, you would probably be fine, so long as the buyer knows it is not an original dial.  Changing the logo is as simple as opening the SVG, un-grouping everything and removing or replacing that one object. Changing the "Сделано в ссср" and "19 камней" is just as simple. If there are any Russian speakers, they may be able to correct any typos in these. Also "кварц" according to Google Translate should say quartz... maybe.

88x31.png

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The Luch logo is public domain. However its use may be subject to copyright by the Luch watch company.

Click the link and make up your own mind.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Decent work with decals but I seem to get better results with  my methods. Members think these are decals I use but thay are not decals or anything like that. I suspect decals will not last very long. Just my opinion20200226_184022_HDR.thumb.jpg.df258b17fae509aa09f4510643c4768e.jpg
That one is more than decent so congrats ... but what would be really interesting is that you tell us more about the method you use ?

Envoyé de mon moto g(7) power en utilisant Tapatalk

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6 hours ago, manodeoro said:

That one is more than decent so congrats ... but what would be really interesting is that you tell us more about the method you use ?

The answer that was given already but removed by mods as adverting for services is that is they are a secret. What a difference from the sharing attitude that you, Andy and many others have in this friendly forum.

 

 

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On 2/28/2020 at 2:21 AM, manodeoro said:

Decent work with decals but I seem to get better results with  my methods. Members think these are decals I use but thay are not decals or anything like that. I suspect decals will not last very long. J

Difficult to argue with that since you are unwilling to share your "method", however, since the subject of this thread is "CUSTOM DECAL DIAL TUTORIAL", and not some mysterious secret "method" let me address the subject of longevity of decals.


Decal making has a long history, dating back through the centuries, and is arguably as old as the act of tracing an image on to a substrate, however the modern process, it could be argued really took off some time in the late 18th and early 19th centuries.

dealer_miles_highres_1576502582312-23196

(19th century "Decalomania" Vase)

One of those credited with its invention was the engraver Simon François Ravenet ( a contemporary and assistant of the English painter, print maker and satirist William Hogarth).  The process has evolved into a stable of modern industry, with decals appearing on all manner of substrates and in all kinds of processes.

tp-005_large.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

The process used in the waterslide  decals described in this thread, for use on watch dials is almost identical to the process used on children's toys throughout the 20th century, with everything from clockwork tin plate Hornby locomotives to Matchbox and Dinky cars being adorned with water slide decals.

s-l1000.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Any process that can survive the actions of a child playing with it could hardly be described as anything other then very robust, assuming the surface on to which the decal is being applied, is clean and blemish free, and the decal is applied according to the prescribed method.

Clearly the only way to know if these dials will stand the test of time is to wait 100 years and see if they are every bit as legible as their early 20th century counterparts, however, considering that they will generally not be subject to abrasion, moisture, harsh UV light or solvents, and that their surface is sealed with a waterproof lacquer, I have no reason to doubt that they should bear up just fine.

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Since I had a few spare minutes, I printed off a couple of test prints on ordinary A4 cheap printer paper on my ancient HP 4650 colour laser printer.

RIMG0552.thumb.JPG.4f23fac459d74eac9b86109f7ab8353e.JPG

The laser printer is limited to 600dpi, however despite that, the results look not too bad. Ignore the red streak, that is due to a small mark on the red cartridge drum. 

The victim is a 19 jewel Sekona with a trashed dial. I'll need to modify the artwork to match the jewel count.

I also have an Epson inkjet (which as is always the case with inkjets, has just run out of ink). The Epson can do a more useful 1400dpi, and the water-slide paper I ordered on the slow boat from China is ready to go, just as soon as I have some more spare time (don't hold your breath, things are looking pretty busy for the next few weeks). 

 

 

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I did in fact get a few minutes to continue with the experiments, with some interesting results.

The first is only really interesting to me, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

If you look carefully at this first image, you will see that the center registration mark shows vertical de-registration of the red, or to be more accurate, the magenta dots. This was caused by the same issue that caused the red banding I mentioned in the previous post.

RIMG0553.thumb.JPG.58cb6e620f2db53442b154422ab9fb9b.JPG

It turned out that one of the cartridge drive gears for the magenta cartridge was slightly soiled by black toner (presumably from a slight leak or spillage from the black toner cartridge, which sits in the slot above the magenta cartridge). this was enough to cause the teeth of the gear to travel slightly unevenly, and produce the inconsistency you can see. It is also the reason that the red stars have a slight yellow ghosting. I've cleaned the offending gear train and hopefully things will work a little better now, but this is a slightly ancient printer, so I'm not expecting miracles from it.

The next interesting issue was with an experiment in finishing the surfaces of the print.

RIMG0554.thumb.JPG.6c379c99e068ccec8c24ffd256b3980f.JPG

In light of the issues that @manodeoro mentioned. Namely the difficulty in getting a smooth even finish. I thought I would try some clear nail polish, since that claims to have a hard high glossy finish. The issue I found was that paper, unlike fingernails has voids in it that trap air, so I ended up with a nice shiny surface, but with many air bubbles trapped in it. The effect is interesting, but not really suitable for a watch dial.

I'm going to try a variety of rattle can lacquers and some other brushed finishes to see what works best. I'll keep you posted with the results. I'll also try the nail polish on the water slide media, as that may not be porous, so may not produce the same issue. I may try thinning it with acetone too, so the setup time is longer, and any bubbles will have time to disperse.

The nail polish did produce another unexpected effect. The resulting paper dial is entirely waterproof, as the polish soaked completely through the paper, and left me with a plastic like disk. I can see this trick might be useful for other situations where a completely waterproof label is required.

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On initial reflection,  it seems likely that paper might make a poor dial substrate. It is thick, at around 0.1mm, compared with a a paint layer, which may be as little as 0.02 mm. The water slide transfer by comparison looks to be around 0.05mm from the limited information I can find online.

Paper does have some useful properties however. For example it can be textured easily, simply by passing it through a suitably pattered roller. It can  also, easily be made waterproof as I have just shown.

So I decided to try texturing one of the paper dials to see how simply that could be done. 

RIMG0556.thumb.JPG.b76590855f7198fabf175d21c17b1d26.JPG

I had all sorts of smart ideas, involving 3d printed rollers and etched plates, but then I noticed I had the perfect experimental roller sitting on the work bench, so rather than spend ages drafting something in FreeCAD, I simply rolled the handle of my screwdriver over the paper.  The effect is far from perfect, but it does suggest this is an avenue worth exploring. I may even try it on the waterslide transfer, after clear coating it, but before removing it from the backing sheet and applying it. 

The paper I have used is pretty crude, cheap supermarket brand printer paper, but high quality bright gloss finish paper would probably be more suitable for experiments with textures. I was thinking of something along the lines of a 0.3mm brass sheet sunstrate, plated with nickel and then covered with a textured linen paper dial and sealed with a hard acrylic finish. 

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  • 3 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Most of the dial decal process descriptions I've read have used plain water as an aide to positioning the dial.

Has anyone experimented with Microsol and Microset to see if there's any advantage as opposed to using just water?

I did note that @manodeoro mentioned using Microset in places on his illustrated tutorial.

\\\

On another note, I'm corresponding with someone on Reddit who is experimenting with direct laser toner transfer for creating custom dials. That method has some advantages in that there's no clear film to worry about, but I suspect that it's a lot more difficult to get quality results. I've used xylene to transfer color laser toner from plain printer paper to different media to some success, and the principle is the same for a custom watch dial.

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