hands when in place are stopping the wheel train?

[Blubarb]

What's happening here? I am in the last stages of assembling a 1956 Movado Cal.157 and the balance is ticking along nicely, but here is the issue. When I press the hands into place the balance ceases to oscillate. Any ideas what might be going on here? 

Thanks

 

[Nucejoe]

Remove one hand at a time and observe.

If a fault not found there, check if canon pinion drags on the mainplate.

 

 

 

 

[rogart63]

Does it have a sweepsecond pinion? Maybe that is binding or have some wear. 

[Blubarb]

No canon sweep pinion I can see.

Canon pinion turning smoothly - should I grease between the mainplate and the canon pinion gear? 

Missing dial washer?  

[rogart63]

1 hour ago, Blubarb said:

No canon sweep pinion I can see.

Canon pinion turning smoothly - should I grease between the mainplate and the canon pinion gear? 

Missing dial washer?  

 

 

 

I looked at ranfft and it was showing the movement that had a sweep second wheel and pinion . That why i thought so. Maybe the hour wheel is worn so it touch the minute wheel or the barrel .  Been there . 

[yankeedog]

You have a sub second hand..is it my imagination or does that post look bent.

[Blubarb]

1 hour ago, yankeedog said:

You have a sub second hand..is it my imagination or does that post look bent.

Checked and it looks okay in that regard. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Blubarb

[Blubarb]

3 hours ago, rogart63 said:

I looked at ranfft and it was showing the movement that had a sweep second wheel and pinion . That why i thought so. Maybe the hour wheel is worn so it touch the minute wheel or the barrel .  Been there . 

Yep, I had better check ranfft again as there are a couple of other differences I can see in the photo I have of the c. 157 as well. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Blubarb

[Nucejoe]

While at it , Check for worn out center hole, how about end and side shake on center wheels arbor? Runs real freely if center hole is worn out. A close up of center hole with canon pinion removed.

Now that yankee said it, subsecond arbor appears bent to me too. Good time to check for bent subsecond is before fork is installed, when you can run gears fast.

Any washer under dial is better than no washer.

 

 

 

 

[Blubarb]

Just put it under the microscope and yep, sure is bent.

5 hours ago, yankeedog said:

You have a sub second hand..is it my imagination or does that post look bent.

 Yep bent. I just had a good look under the microscope. You gents have amazing sight! 

Would this then be the most likely cause stopping the free movement of the train wheels and balance? 

[Blubarb]

To test this, I put the hands back on and the movement didn't stop. Put on the subsecond hand and it came to a stop quick enough. 

Any tips on straightening it without breaking it?  

Edited February 20, 2019 by Blubarb

[Nucejoe]

Straigthening in place( the movement) is not recommendable, you risk bending the pivot backward facing structural fatigue, damgaing the jewel, slip and break..etc.

I remove the wheel,  place the bent section of the pivot in between two hard flat srface and roll the pivot straight . No impact, no hammer nor heat, just press hard, slow, careful.

While at it check the pivots axial end play, end shake, excessive end shake can unneccessarily let the bent section inside the jewel hole, in which case you may could adjust the bent section out of the jewel hole.

Cool avatar there. 

Good luck.

[rogart63]

15 hours ago, yankeedog said:

You have a sub second hand..is it my imagination or does that post look bent.

Well spotted. 

[yankeedog]

Calibrated eyeball...

[Nucejoe]

On 2/20/2019 at 1:19 AM, rogart63 said:

I looked at ranfft and it was showing the movement that had a sweep second wheel and pinion . That why i thought so. Maybe the hour wheel is worn so it touch the minute wheel or the barrel .  Been there . 

 I checked all variations listed by Dr ranfft.

I think it is Movado75.  Later modified fitting incab shock protection. 

[Blubarb]

54 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 I checked all variations listed by Dr ranfft.

I think it is Movado75.  Later modified fitting incab shock protection. 

Yep. I have to agree. That's it. Thanks. 

[Blubarb]

Following Nucejoe's directions I managed to straighten the sub seconds post and it's beating strongly and the seconds hand is keeping beat with the Atomic clock app I have. However, the time is running running about a half hour slow within the hour. I am assuming something is going on around the centre and third wheel?  Because the seconds hand is keeping time I am thinking it's not the balance wheel. Any thoughts or ideas on what this new issue might be would be greatly appreciated! 

[yankeedog]

I don't have such a movement. but I do have a raketa 2603 which is similarly constructed.My suspicion is that your problem is the fourth wheel pinion.If the second hand is running at correct speed but the rest of the watch is moving at half speed,i think that pinion is either missing teeth , or that shaft is bent. I would remove the hairspring , pallet and mainspring and manually move the gears.observe how they rotate in relation to each other

[Nucejoe]

The seconds hand is keeping beat, but the watch is going half hr slow? 

Canon pinion turning smoothly. How smoothly? Perhaps loose, needs tighthening.

If I understand you correctly the hands indicate the timekeeping slow?  Electronics shows the watch happy at heart.

Canon pinions loosen due to old age so do my teeth.

Coolest avatar.   Regards

[Marc]

+1 @Nucejoe, first thing to check for is a loose canon pinion.