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Macgman2000

Making a custom dial

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Hello,

I downloaded the data sheet for 2824-2 movement and can't find the height of the post. I am trying to figure out if I strip down a brass dial for a 2824-2, to mount a printed picture on the dial. If i print on photo paper, that is 0.27mm thick. Most dials are 0.5mm if I am not mistaken. I am not sure if 0.77mm is too thick or not to clear the hands. Would appreciate any info on this topic.

-Nick

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Hello,
I downloaded the data sheet for 2824-2 movement and can't find the height of the post. I am trying to figure out if I strip down a brass dial for a 2824-2, to mount a printed picture on the dial. If i print on photo paper, that is 0.27mm thick. Most dials are 0.5mm if I am not mistaken. I am not sure if 0.77mm is too thick or not to clear the hands. Would appreciate any info on this topic.
-Nick


Hello
From my experience the best is to use decal paper + spray varnish.
Depending on your dial project I can give you some more infos about the best process.
Here's an example of a negative Gilt domed dial I'm building for a vintage divers watch.

498cce5708dd82cca7113194d72a6144.jpg

Envoyé de mon Moto G (5) Plus en utilisant Tapatalk

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Ah interesting....So is this a water transfer label on a painted dial?

This one is a clear water decal, printed black, on a polished copper dial.Not the easiest I have built because the dial us domed.

But you can put decals on painted dials.

If you show us a pic of your dial project it will be easier to help.

 

Envoyé de mon Moto G (5) Plus en utilisant Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

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Did you have to grind down the dial disk to keep the overall thickness to spec? I don't have a disk yet, I am purchasing a flat disk from ebay that fits the watch case. Have to get something with 2824-2 feet soldered to it. Then comes the tear down.

 

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Did you have to grind down the dial disk to keep the overall thickness to spec? I don't have a disk yet, I am purchasing a flat disk from ebay that fits the watch case. Have to get something with 2824-2 feet soldered to it. Then comes the tear down.
 
It depends on the dial I want to do.
For a Gilt dial I just sand the plate a little then polish it, because decal + 4 really thin coats of varnish is almost the same thickness as the original paint.
If I want to spray paint the dial plate before applying the decal I send a little more and I spray 3 thin coats of paint, each one of them sanded with 1200/2000.
Sometimes I sunburst the dial before applying decal do not sanding
It REALLY depends on the project.

Envoyé de mon Moto G (5) Plus en utilisant Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, manodeoro said:

Hello
From my experience the best is to use decal paper + spray varnish.
Depending on your dial project I can give you some more infos about the best process.
Here's an example of a negative Gilt domed dial I'm building for a vintage divers watch.

This would be extremely intresting I think not just for me but to countless other members on this forum that has been thinking of making or restoring dials.
So if you are up to it please make a small tutorial of this process.

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This would be extremely intresting I think not just for me but to countless other members on this forum that has been thinking of making or restoring dials.
So if you are up to it please make a small tutorial of this process.
Too bad the one I've just shown is finished (still need some lume).
But when doing the next one I'll take pics of the process and write a tutorial.
I've been doing that for 2 years and the last one is the first domed dial I achieve with success.

Envoyé de mon Moto G (5) Plus en utilisant Tapatalk

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I'm glad to see someone has tried this, and had some success.

I thought it should work, but I wasn't sure that it would be possible to get the resolution and anti-aliasing good enough for the level of clarity and detail that is required.
It seems that I needn't have worried.

Time to order some clear, and white decal paper and start experimenting, I think.  Keep us posted with any future results.

@manodeoro I, for one would be keen to see more of your process.

BTW i have a couple of other ideas I would like to try out, one being heat transfer foils.

 

This sort of stuff, which is readily available, and should in theory work on to the laser toner on the decal.

https://creativepaperco.com/heat-transfer-foil

 

 

Edited by AndyHull

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3 hours ago, clockboy said:

I have used the decal paper on clock dials. I found the best was the laser decal as they seemed a little thicker and easier to position. 

Definitely thicker and more resistant.

But for wrist watches you have to adjust the stem height + or - 0.5 mm, so I would say "the thiner the better".

 

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2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

I would also like to see how you do that too.

Well ... it was a 5500 Air-King dial (for my own Air-King collection) so I'm not 100% certain I can show it here.

Talking about fake dials is one thing, showing how to make one is another.

My next dial is for a customer but it's a custom one (like the "Jacinthe" one) so no problem about showing all the process.

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2 hours ago, AndyHull said:

I'm glad to see someone has tried this, and had some success.

I thought it should work, but I wasn't sure that it would be possible to get the resolution and anti-aliasing good enough for the level of clarity and detail that is required.
It seems that I needn't have worried.

Time to order some clear, and white decal paper and start experimenting, I think.  Keep us posted with any future results.

@manodeoro I, for one would be keen to see more of your process.

BTW i have a couple of other ideas I would like to try out, one being heat transfer foils.

 

This sort of stuff, which is readily available, and should in theory work on to the laser toner on the decal.

https://creativepaperco.com/heat-transfer-foil

 

 

To get a good (not so bad) printing level here is how I proceed :

1 - design the dials on Photoshop and/or illustrator with a 4000 ppi definition

2a - print directly with Photoshop for black printings ... let Photoshop deal with quality

2b - generate jpg files for colored printings then print with Acrobat or Aperçu (WISIWYG) ... let the printer deal with quality

I use an old Epson photo printer (A5) with a 1200 ppi definition.

I never work with  other definition than 4000 ppi ... I tried less (3000) and more (5000) and I always got bad results.

 

I've tried white decal paper and I never use it anymore because it's two thick as  it's a 2 layers paper (clear decal on white vinyl).

When I want white printing on a black or colored dial I first spraypaint the dial plate in white, then print the black/colors on the decal.

It's much easier to positionate a clear decal when you have a date window (you design it "clear" on the Photoshop) on markers.

 

Heat transfer rolls sounds nice ... but you'll have to heat the painted dials so ???

If you want "gold" printing on a black dial the best is negative gilt ... that's how they did in the 50ies and taht's what decal on gilt try to mimic.

 

THE problem with all those decal dials is that you do not have any 3D ... everything looks flat

So next step is silk-printing, to get some 3D ...

Or pad-printing but you need to get a $400 manual prad printer+ an insolation set, etc ... I will rpobably do that in the future but not now.

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1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi would you give estimates by seeing pic of the dial? And how about orders in bulk.

Where are you located?

Joe

Hi Nucejoe,

I'm just showing my work and trying to help here ... and definitely NOT advertising to sell anything. 

There are guidelines here https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/guidelines/ that strictly says that sales are prohibited on this forum, which is a community website.

And that what makes that forum a really different and cool place.

So sorry ... I can't give any estimate here.

But follow that thread and I'll post as much as technical informations as I can.

Cheers.

manodeoro

P.S.: There is a possibility in the future that I could decide to offer custom builds (no fake watches) but I'll do that elsewhere ... then I'll possibly put a link in my signature but only after asking and if the moderators give an OK.

PPS almost forgot ... I'm located in France

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As I mentioned, I was hoping to do some pad printing experiments using a Silicone Nail Art Stamper as the "tampon" part, and whatever mechanism I can devise to allow accurate positioning over the stencil and then the dial.

I think the silicone nail art stamper should be capable of accurate lifting of the ink. For the stencil, I may try etching some FR4 circuit board, but it may not give enough depth, and thus enough ink for this purpose, so etched brass or steel (or aluminium sheet from  drinks cans perhaps) may be the way forward.

 

Some sort of repeatable mechanical registration is obviously necessary, and indeed key,  between the inking step and the printing step to ensure acceptable results.

If I make any progress, I'll post the results.

I'm currently on holiday, so it may be a couple of weeks before I get a chance to try anything.
 

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Quote

Heat transfer rolls sounds nice ... but you'll have to heat the painted dials so ???

I haven't had a chance to try this, but to use the film for its normal purpose,  you would print your design using a laser printer, then put the design and the heat transfer paper through a pouch laminater, the sort of thing used in offices to laminate documents.


The heat causes the transfer roll to bond to the toner, so the printed design becomes metallic in appearance, but only where the toner is present on the laser printed pass.

This assumes you are a normal person, using it for its normal purpose, but clearly I am not :P

 

My thoughts were that I might try this with a two stage print, using inkjet decal paper. This assumes inkjet decal media would survive the journey through a laser printer,  *and* a subsequent journey through the laminating machine, which may be a pretty bold assumption.

So the workflow would be.

1) Inkjet print the decal paper, with the coloured part of your design (numerals, logos etc).

2) The second pass would be through through the laser printer  to add the black toner image for the metallic accents.

3) A subsequent pass with the metal film through the laminater would then bond foil  to the toner details.

4) Result.. (hopefully) a clear decal, with numerals, or whatever inkjet details (a semi transparent colour background perhaps) or whatever other details your imagination can think of, and the gold, silver bronze or whatever accents the foil and toner passes added.

More likely, you will just end up with inkjet media stuck in the laser printer, or the laminater, but you never know till you try. :D

 

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1 hour ago, manodeoro said:

Hi Nucejoe,

I'm just showing my work and trying to help here ... and definitely NOT advertising to sell anything. 

There are guidelines here https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/guidelines/ that strictly says that sales are prohibited on this forum, which is a community website.

And that what makes that forum a really different and cool place.

So sorry ... I can't give any estimate here.

But follow that thread and I'll post as much as technical informations as I can.

Cheers.

manodeoro

P.S.: There is a possibility in the future that I could decide to offer custom builds (no fake watches) but I'll do that elsewhere ... then I'll possibly put a link in my signature but only after asking and if the moderators give an OK.

PPS almost forgot ... I'm located in France

Thanks for your response, guidelines Prohibilt adverts promoting ones products or commercial websites and postings links to third party sites from which we commercially gain.

My understanding is, we wouldn,t be acting in violation of forums policies, if your estimates saves me from getting overcharged somewhere else or we make deals outside the forum. In other words just because we found each other here, the forums gains no right to prohibit us from commercial engagement, period,  Though we are not welcome to use this forum as a platform to launch deals or promote commercial sites,  we can promote a site here, as long as not commercial or off of which we gain.

This forum is full of reommendarions by our moderators to buy a part form cousinsuk, or a company making HS and none are in violation of guidelines. 

Regards joe

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1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

Thanks for your response, guidelines Prohibilt adverts promoting ones products or commercial websites and postings links to third party sites from which we commercially gain.

 My understanding is, we wouldn,t be acting in violation of forums policies, if your estimates saves me from getting overcharged somewhere else or we make deals outside the forum. In other words just because we found each other here, the forums gains no right to prohibit us from commercial engagement, period,  Though we are not welcome to use this forum as a platform to launch deals or promote commercial sites,  we can promote a site here, as long as not commercial or off of which we gain.

 This forum is full of reommendarions by our moderators to buy a part form cousinsuk, or a company making HS and none are in violation of guidelines. 

 Regards joe

I hope my post didn't sounded rude as it wasn't supposed to and if it sounded please accept my apologizes.

So ... if you can post a pic of the dial you need and if the moderators are OK (I will ask them) I will give you an estimate if I'm certain it's possible to get a really good result (some dials can't be done with decals).

It could be really low or medium depending on the design as most of the is passed on Photoshop or Illustrator.

Regards

manodeoro 

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I agree, Its always a good idea to asked moderators. I have done so before, asked of OH about spare parts fellow forumers often need.

The dials in bulk are vintage Oris calender pointer, some eight hundered genuine plates in two diferent aizes, all with good sturdy feet. My question is,  what do you recommend? Will post pix within a day.

Nearly six hundered genuine plates all vintage selfwinder fortis of various models and sizes already on hand, yet the quanrity can rise considerably.

Fifty rare plates of various brands.

Some guy here in Tehran refurbishes, prints are good paint or decal quality is not as good as the pic shown earlier in this thread. I heard his equipment involves laser and such. I wounder if good quality  raw material is the problem or his tech shortcomings? Perhaps your advise would improve his work.

Pix will be posted within 24 hrs.

Thanks in advance.

 

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Mark did a video about building own watch. Sort of inspired me to build up a custom watch. The dial and hands are custom handmade from raw material. The movement is automatic TY2706. The case 316 stainless modified a bit. Worn everyday and a great timekeeper

IMG_6375.JPG.00047976e11a0daa286a49089d512b80.JPG

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testors (or similar)water slide decal paper, print the dial on your inkjet printer.prepare the dial by sanding it down and painting it white. IJP's do not print white, they depend on the paper for that .

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Download image of dial you want.

Alter ,size and print using ms paint.

Check size using plain paper first . 

Then print on water slide decal paper. 

After it is dry spray with clear paint for color fastness.

Apply decal to prepared surface as per directions.

It is not art.but you do get an acceptable legible dial

IMAG0492.jpg

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