Mainspring winders

[matabog]

The final result: the #7 barrel with the bushes and the #3 arbor with the large disc. And it works great - I just tested it

 

 

Thank you!

i hope it helps!

[clockboy]

Great Post will follow your examples I have had the same issue you encountered. Also I found with the new Bergeon winder sets the gap that accepts the spring when winding was too small and had to file wider.

PS  are the bushes removable so you can use the tool as originally intended if needed.

 

PPS. Poor design from Bergeon considering the cost

[matabog]

yes, the bushes are removable. There is no problem if the disc is larger then necessary - plus you have the other arbor (as I mentioned above, you have two identical arbors for each two consecutive barrels - you only modify one of them).

The tool can definitely be used as originally intended with no problem.

[Michael]

Great information and thanks for posting. I could not find those arbor diameter sizes anywhere so that is really useful. I had the same problem with no winder for Landeron 48 etc so just started to make one. Waiting for a 1mm carbide end mill to arrive from China to add the hook piece, and a M3 die to finish winding handle. The winder bit is going to be Nivarox style as this is what I saw to copy, but if that does not work the spoke type looks probably easier to make. Not sure if it is going to work, but cannot really see why it should not

[matabog]

it's great when you have the tools and knowledge to make your own tools. I struguled to make 3 simple discs...

 

[AP1875]

Hi guys, I'm currently following level 2 of the repair course. I split the main spring barrel and removed the spring but didn't realise until the assembly lesson that I would need a winder to install it. Now considering the 6497 is probably a movement im not going to work on too often I don't really want to buy a winder and I'll probably just buy another clone movement which is cheaper than the tool itself.

Now this got me thinking, when you service a watch movement do you just replace the spring for new or do you do as per the course? A full set of winders could be near £1000.

I'm just doing this as a hobby as im interested in watch movements and I only have a limited variety from my personal collection of watches, I'm always buying more watches so I could have a few of each of the following 2824/2840/2836/2892/7750 and a 3135. 

 

 

[rodabod]

I eventually bought some second hand winders. The vast majority of watches I repair are 11 - 13", which means the barrels are all similar in size, so I don't really need that many. I think hand winding is ok if you are careful; you can prove you are doing it well by removing and reinspecting the spring for deformation.

[oldhippy]

I’m probably going to get crucified on here for saying this. I could never get on with watch mainspring winders. I found them awkward to use due to me mainly being left handed.

[dieale2]

Mainsprings are a PITA for me. For manual winders, you can do both hand winding and using a winder to great effect. Although, if you don't want finger oils on the mainspring, winders are the way to go. I find my latex cots frequently get stuck in the mainspring.

For automatics, you probably want a winder. Its not easy to start hand winding an automatic mainspring with that bridle attached to it. At least for me I didn't find it easy.

As someone else pointed out, a set of vintage is the way to go. You can find them easily under $50 for the two most common sizes.

[Tmuir]

Search your favorite online auction site for a second hand set, they do turn up every now and then.

For some older watches you cant find replacement springs easily so you do need to use the spring you took out of the barrel.

You can get away without a mainspring winder, but the chance to damage the spring is much higher, so its a worthwhile investment.

[oldhippy]

Looking on ebay the other day. I noticed quite a few individual watch mainspring winders. I think it was in the watch vintage tool section.  

[VWatchie]

My advice is to buy a replacement mainspring for the 6497. They are about £12 at cousinsuk.com. I did the course myself and that's what I did, and if I remember correctly, Mark recommends replacing the mainspring as a best practice, if possible. However, if you decide not to replace it, I really think it is possible to get away with it doing it by hand. It's a big spring so that should resist more, but on the other hand, as it is bigger it should make it easier to handle by hand.

oldhippy, how often do you destroy/kink your mainsprings replacing them by hand, and how much of "a pain" is it?

[clockboy]

Some repairers just replace with a new spring as part of the service. I could not get on with hand winding so I have purchased several winders over the years., However as oldhippy says they can also be troublesome. 

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

My advice is to buy a replacement mainspring for the 6497. They are about £12 at cousinsuk.com. I did the course myself and that's what I did, and if I remember correctly, Mark recommends replacing the mainspring as a best practice, if possible. However, if you decide not to replace it, I really think it is possible to get away with it doing it by hand. It's a big spring so that should resist more, but on the other hand, as it is bigger it should make it easier to handle by hand.

oldhippy, how often do you destroy/kink your mainsprings replacing them by hand, and how much of "a pain" is it?

I’m retired and have been for many years. I do not think I had any trouble, because the springs in watches are of very little height you don’t distort them, unlike clock main springs.

[AP1875]

Thank you for all of the replies.

As recommended, I think for the 6497 I will just buy a replacement and I'll buy a winder to suit my other watches.

Would the Bergeon winders be recommended here? Should I consider any other style or brand?

[Jon]

I've been scouring the internet for some mainspring winders that were in my price range and came across these little gems. Strangely enough, it was advertised in Polish and again in English which were both on eBay, but not listed as 'mainspring winders', they were listed as 'GB Federwinder' Maybe that's why they were still on sale. It appears too good to be true... Anyway, the English advert was £20 more than the Polish one, even the postage was more, needless to say, I bought the Polish version!  for what I think is a draw dropping price of £125 inc P&P for 18 mainspring winders! Right place at the right time, I suppose...

I actually managed to get a 9.5mm mainspring into an adjustable winder that technically only went up to 7 mm. Jeez... that was a struggle but it worked a treat. I'm getting a feeling that these winders are going to make my life a whole lot easier!

[manodeoro]

Really good catch !!!

Envoyé de mon Moto G (5) Plus en utilisant Tapatalk

[oldhippy]

Looks like you have a good deal.

[Khronos]

So, I'm still struggling with this.  The inside diameter of my Elgin 18s mainspring barrel is 14mm.  So, that means I probably want #9 (13mm) Bergeon winder no?  Then I need a handle and arbour correct?   I think I want it to be left handed?  I don't know? 

[matabog]

These are the dimmensions for the Bergeon 2795 set:

[Lc130]

Hi All

I've made reasonably good progress at learning this as a hobby thanks to lots of help from forum members.  I'm outright failing on mainsprings though.  My $28 Seiko 6119A MS replacement went airborne when I didn't push it into the barrel correctly.  I bought a new one for the seiko and others because I don't have a winder.  I've long given up trying to hand winding automatics.

I picked up an old winder set on ebay.  But, most of the hooks are broken off making it useless.  The Bergeon winders are priced for professionals.  What do most hobbyist use?  

Any advice is welcome!

Charlie

 

Edited February 8, 2019 by Lc130

[watchweasol]

Hi Charlie   What I use are my hands and plenty of patience The latter being the watch word excuse pun. usually when new springs arrive they are held in a former and once the orientation is sorted out place the former over the barrel making sure the spring fits in the rim then work the spring into the barrel. To make it easier what i try to do is, on a flat surface press the former down a bit on the spring so you have an edge this edge is the bit you fit into the barrel prior to fitting and pressing it into place. If you remove springs by hand and intentd to re fit clean the spring in alchohol and relube. Best to use rubber or latex gloves to avoid sweaty fingers marking the spring. Probably not the correct way but it works. otherwise use a winder. there are several types as you have [probably found out. 

[vinn3]

Charlie;    yes,  i use my hands, but the key is use the thumbs and lots of practise.  the thumbs will not damage the springs.

[Lc130]

How do you keep from permanently bending the bridle on an automatic??

[yankeedog]

59 minutes ago, Lc130 said:

How do you keep from permanently bending the bridle on an automatic??

You aren't the only one to ponder this.I recently destroyed a Seiko mainspring trying to get it back into the barrel.The bridle just did not want to go back.I would have had better luck trying to drag a dog into a haunted house.The advised hand wind method works great on unbridled mainsprings.But for a Seiko automatic you need a witch doctor.