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Dial renovation


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Hi guys, here’s a question, does/has anyone had success with restoring dials? It seems to be a black art that specialists charge a fortune for. 

Dont get me wrong the work they advertise on their websites looks phenomenal. But what chemicals, solutions and procedures do you think they use? 

Myself i use dove soap warm water and a cotton bud to clean off dials but I cannot get them anywhere near how the pros get theirs.

Anyone know of any other ways?

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I have ruined several dial while trying to clean. Baby oil, soaking in soap and other liquids I found in the kitchen.

The one time I saw good results was erase with rubber, the kind used to earase writings on paper, learned that reading one of OH advices.

Depend on the case at hand, post a pic, OH continues with advice.

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Here are my observations for what they are worth.

The professionals in many cases "re-finish" the dials, by stripping it back to the metal blank, and re-machining and re-painting them.


This requires specialist printing and finishing equipment, some of which it may be possible to emulate, with varying degrees of success.

There is a whole spectrum of different methods of manufacturing the many and various dial finishes that have been made over the years, and each type will provide different challenges if you attempt to repair them.

If you think of the dial as a sandwich, it starts with a blank (usually metal, silver, brass or aluminium but in some cases plastic), on to which the legs or dial feet are generally welded or soldered.

On to the dial, in many cases does the first layer of the sandwich, the plating silver or gold in some cases. This may be applied before or after the machining, depending on the effect being sought. Not all dials are plated of course.

The next layer of the sandwich is often the engraving or machining. This gives a surface texture to the dial.
Not all dials are textured in this way, some have a plain smooth gloss or matte finish.

Re-machining a metal blank, once corroded and pitted is probably beyond the capabilities of anyone without the ability to "engine turn" metal at the sub millimeter scale, although it might be an interesting experiment to see if a 3d printer or small CNC might be capable of such work.  

The next layer of the sandwich is typically some sort of colouring. Aluminium for example may be anodised to a particular hue. Plain metal or plastic dials may be painted. If the paint is damaged, then this can be difficult to hide, You may have some luck matching white or black, but colours are more tricky.

It is surprisingly difficult to match even  whites and blacks convincingly, especially since a white dial may not be uniformly white, due to the effects of aging. The center of the dial may be distinctly more yellow or grey than the edges.

Printing often comes next, and as you can imagine, accurately printing clear and sharp lettering on to a piece of material 30 or so mm in diameter, which often has curves and precision holes in it, is no simple task. There are machines designed to solve this particular problem, but they are not cheap.

You also need to have, or make the etched plate with the design you want printed (the company logo, watch model name, lume pattern, numerals, date window surround and so forth).

Re-printing the dial therefore is probably beyond the scope of a simple dial refurbishment. It may be possible, but it would take a lot of work. 


Affixed to the dial we often have various accents and adornments (the numerals, date window, brand logo and so on) and these too can age unevenly, and show damage from impact, corrosion and yellowing of varnish and so on.  They present several challenges when attempting to clean. They are very small. Any cleaning attempt may therefore cause us to come in contact with the dial face, and damage it, and on an old dial, they are often easily, accidentally dislodged.

 

Finally we come to the top layer of the sandwich, the varnish or clear coat. This is often where the majority of the damage actually occurs, since it comes in to contact with the elements. Varnishes yellow over time. They crack, peel, or become opaque. They absorb nicotine and grime, and can often turn an otherwise reasonably presentable dial in to one that looks terrible.

Removing the varnish is possible in some case, and I have seen some impressive results online where people have managed to remove and refinish this top layer of the sandwich. Others have found that the dial printing tends to lift with the varnish, or the entire dial surface can get ruined.

 

I have had limited success with this. Work slowly, and be prepared to admit defeat and send the dial of to be completely stripped and re-finished if it all goes pear shaped. If you apply a new clear coat, thin it down and apply two or three coats of very thin material. Work in a dust free environment, allow each coat to completely dry, and inspect it for dust before applying the next.

Finally we come to the simplest case, where the dirt is on top of the clear coat, and the clear coat is intact. In these cases, you will probably get away with cleaning with a soft brush, a soft silicone rubber (not the gritty "ink" type, just use a modern pencil eraser). You may be able to clean with a light oil like baby oil, which will remove nicotine stains, but oils may get under the clear coat and cause further issues. You may be able to clean with detergent and water, but that too may get under the clear coat and cause white marks (although these can often be removed by gently heating the dial with a hair dryer).

In summary, you may be able to clean the dial, failing that you may be able to re-apply the varnish, but beyond that, you enter more difficult territory and the risk of ruining the dial gets greater the more you dig.

This is the reason that dial re-finishing is expensive. There is art, science, and not inconsiderable skill involved.
 

 

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Andy that was an impressive presentation got to admire your engagement , in my trade we wright a huge deal of research reports but not in this speed :) .
A while ago I watched this video, shows some of the steps needed for a perfect professional result.
Those logo negatives they use for printing are made in the same way as a printed circuit bord, photo negative. Maybe time to pick out the old kit?

 

Edited by HSL
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That video gives a lot of quick glimpses at the various stages of dial restoration.

There is good reason to refer to the "Atelier" of the watch dial restorer as such in the end credits. There is as much art as there is science in all of this. The results there speak for themselves. Those dials look as good as the day they were first produced.

I did see something else while skimming the random corners of the interwebz while doing a little informal dial restoration research of my own. 

I'm going to throw in this link, which might spark some ideas.  => https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nail+art+stamping+plates+how+to+use

The basic idea would be to use one of those little clear gadgets and some etched plates to see if I could produce sufficiently detailed prints to actually pass muster on a watch face.

The professional way to do this is with something called a tampon printer (no sniggering in the back row there please), but these are rather expensive for a hobby repairer like myself. No doubt well worth the investment if you intend doing this professionally though.

"Tampon printing is a sort of stamping process whereby the ink is taken from an etched metal plate onto a flexible pad - the tampon - and "stamped" onto the article to be printed. The technique is a good alternative if the surface of the product to be printed, does not allow silk-screen printing. When very small printing is required it can be better achieved by using the tampon printing process."

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The video shows the removal of the applied markings.  I've never found a reasonable way to reapply them.  Superglue types always leak out.  Chinese dials have a rubber type adhesive brushed on the back and that often lets go.  I recently made a couple of failed stabs at fixing those.

 Any one have ideas on this?

Neat video.  Like to get locked in that shop over a long weekend!

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Not actually dial renovation but look up Roger W Smith on the tube where he shows how a dial (part of) is engraved and a series of 5 videos on engine turning a dial.  There are also other videos which show just how skilled he is and why his watches cost a fortune and more !

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5 hours ago, nichod said:

The video shows the removal of the applied markings.  I've never found a reasonable way to reapply them.  Superglue types always leak out.  Chinese dials have a rubber type adhesive brushed on the back and that often lets go.  I recently made a couple of failed stabs at fixing those.

 Any one have ideas on this?

Neat video.  Like to get locked in that shop over a long weekend!

Would it work if you gave the markers a dusting of spray lacquer? It tends to have good adhesive properties.

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Gents many thanks for the informative replies, apologies for the late reply, I found the videos very interesting, but I guess for now I’ll be sticking to the cotton buds and warm water, might venture into varnish removal if I feel inclined on a scrap dial or two.

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