Should I be worried about radium?

[AndyHull]

Quote

Documents at the National Records of Scotland also show how the now-defunct Dundee firm UK Time a forerunner to Timex arranged a deal with local fishermen to put 35,000 luminised dials coated with radium into drums and dump them in the Tay Estuary in 1949.

I thought you all might find this interesting.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/139597/shocking-extent-of-radioactive-waste-dumped-in-scottish-seas/

The article continues with the following little gem.

Quote

The arrangement, according to Scotland Office papers, continued for eight more years at an estimated 5,000 dials a year before dumping was switched to the UK Government’s site at Beaufort’s Dyke between Northern Ireland and Scotland.

Now I know why my fish and chips from the chip shop in Broughty ferry stays warm for so long, and here was me thinking it was just the extra layer of newspaper they wrapped them in.

Edited September 29, 2020 by AndyHull

[LeeReynolds]

This isn't a question, but a warning.

I recently ordered a broken watch off ebay with the intention of fixing it. The dial was discolored under where the hands had been sitting in a fixed position for a while. I decided this was suspicious and ordered a Geiger counter.  The thing is giving off over 10 microsieverts an hour, which means that someone wearing it would receive a full day's dose of background radiation in only a few minutes.

But the real issue is ingesting or inhaling dust from the lume on the hands should you mess with them.

For everyone messing with vintage watches that have lumed hands or dials, invest in a cheap Geiger counter so you know whether the watch you are going to work on is "hot."

I bought mine from walmart.com for $85 including shipping.

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by LeeReynolds

[Poljot]

49 minutes ago, LeeReynolds said:

This isn't a question, but a warning.

Thanks. This is not something new. 

When you received your watch, was it showing 03:28 time?

Which model of Geiger counter have you purchased?

And, did you have a chance to watch this video ?

 

 

[LeeReynolds]

I've read things online about the radium dials and hands being dangerous.

I've also read things that say not to worry.

My take is that anything which gives you 24 hours of radiation in a few minutes is probably a bad thing to have on your arm.  Something that will shed radioactive dust when taken apart is something I want even less to do with. 

There's a huge difference between having something radioactive near you -- or on you -- which will give your entire body a dosage of radiation, and having a small speck of radioactive material lodged in your lungs irradiating the immediate area continuously for an indefinite period of time.  I wish I'd waited till I got this geiger counter to take that watch apart.  I won't make that mistake again.

Let's not forget that radium decays into radon.  Where I'm from, most people have radon detectors, especially if they have a basement as the stuff comes up out of the ground.  I don't need it coming off my arm.

This is the geiger counter I bought:

 

 

If anyone is interested, I can post a video of the readings I'm getting from it.

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by LeeReynolds

[Nucejoe]

Sending me your watch helps get over your worry.

 

[AndyHull]

Just for fun I picked up a gieger counter kit from ebay a couple of months back.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Geiger-kit-DIY-Arduino-IDE-compatible-easy-nuclear-radiation-counter-w-o-tube/153986465695?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=454085217095&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
 

Its been sitting waiting for a spare moment to put it together, so this evening I grabbed it and assembled the thing, which took me less than an hour. I do however have quite a lot of experience of electronic repairs and soldering, so I found it pretty simple. Your mileage may vary.

I'll complete the build tomorrow (it only needs the tube connecting and testing).

So far I'm impressed with the build quality, and the seller's response when the first delivery didn't turn up. He was very helpful and popped another one in the post which showed up about a week later.

I picked up a couple of Soviet era  tubes a long time back so I already had a suitable detector. You can also buy the kit with a tube, and even buy it pre-assembled I believe.

I'll keep you posted when I have the thing running.

[jdrichard]

Should be fine in a million years:)

[Poljot]

7 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

Should be fine in a million years:)

Sounds like a good investment, eh?

[LeeReynolds]

Here's a link to a video I made that demonstrates just how "hot" this watch is.

https://d.tube/v/leereyno101/QmTgKeUXedmfVoMRKkRGBuqbBhQtpVigbyVyDw4QU7QKpu

Here's a link to a chart that shows what 11 microsieverts represents in terms of radiation dosage:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/the-daily-need/how-much-radiation-is-too-much-a-handy-guide/8124/

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by LeeReynolds

[AndyHull]

24 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

Should be fine in a million years:)

1 million years = 31556952000000 seconds (3.155 x 10^13 seconds)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_radioactive_nuclides_by_half-life

Radium 226 has a half life of 50x10^9 seconds or around 1,600 years

.. so 1 million years will probably make the lume on those hands safe enough to spread on your toast.

Having said that, the radioactivity is relatively low level, so providing you don't actually intend spreading the lume on your toast, and it will remain in the watch, and that the watch is not worn daily, for may years, then its probably not worth worrying about. Most of the activity is absorbed by the dial and case. A small amount of gamma might make it through the case to you, and a little more might make it through the crystal, but not enough to loose any sleep over. An international flight, or a tooth x-ray, or even a days worth of bright sunshine will do more damage.

A banana a day would probably be similarly dangerous ( as wearing the watch, not eating it obviously, the watch would be a choke hazard).

Edited December 2, 2020 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

19 hours ago, LeeReynolds said:

  The thing is giving off over 10 microsieverts an hour, which means that someone wearing it would receive a full day's dose of background radiation in only a few minutes.

True, from the dial side, but what was the dose through the case?
What was the dose through the crystal?
Mostly Radium throws out Alpha and Beta radiation, so most of that isn't going anywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_radium#Radium-226

Some of the gamma will get out.

Dust is the real hazard. Take care when dealing with that.

[jdrichard]

20 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

1 million years = 31556952000000 seconds (3.155 x 10^13 seconds)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_radioactive_nuclides_by_half-life

Radium 226 has a half life of 50x10^9 seconds or around 1,600 years

.. so 1 million years will probably make the lume on those hands safe enough to spread on your toast.

Having said that, the radioactivity is relatively low level, so providing you don't actually intend spreading the lume on your toast, and it will remain in the watch, and that the watch is not worn daily, for may years, then its probably not worth worrying about. Most of the activity is absorbed by the dial and case. A small amount of gamma might make it through the case to you, and a little more might make it through the crystal, but not enough to loose any sleep over. An international flight, or a tooth x-ray, or even a days worth of bright sunshine will do more damage.

A banana a day would probably be similarly dangerous ( as wearing the watch, not eating it obviously, the watch would be a choke hazard).

You are a humorous man. Thought you were going to add diagrams for a reactor 

[AndyHull]

9 hours ago, jdrichard said:

You are a humorous man. Thought you were going to add diagrams for a reactor 

Don't tell anybody I showed you this. Its probably classified.

[jdrichard]

Here is the reading I got from a Wesclox Pocket Ben. 2 other dollar watches would not go past 200 cpm but this one went to 2020 at its peak. I included the video. What should I do with this?

[jdrichard]

3 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

Here is the reading I got from a Wesclox Pocket Ben. 2 other dollar watches would not go past 200 cpm but this one went to 2020 at its peak. I included the video. What should I do with this?

Here is a picture from my GQ GMC 320 Geiger counter

[LeeReynolds]

12.79 microsieverts per hour is more than what I was seeing on my watch.  I was only getting around 10.

I hate the fact that so many older watches with lume are radium based, and the people selling them on Ebay have no idea.

 

I was able to remove virtually all of the radium from the hands on mine, very carefully, by keeping the hands submerged in alcohol and using peg wood to scrape off the lume.  Then I ran the hands through several ultrasonic cleaner cycles.

My watch now reads 0.30 microsieverts an hour, which is roughly double the background radiation in my house

Does your watch have radium in the dial, or just the hands?

If it is just in the hands then you may be able to do the same.

[jdrichard]

7 minutes ago, LeeReynolds said:

12.79 microsieverts per hour is more than what I was seeing on my watch.  I was only getting around 10.

I hate the fact that so many older watches with lume are radium based, and the people selling them on Ebay have no idea.

 

I was able to remove virtually all of the radium from the hands on mine, very carefully, by keeping the hands submerged in alcohol and using peg wood to scrape off the lume.  Then I ran the hands through several ultrasonic cleaner cycles.

My watch now reads 0.30 microsieverts an hour, which is roughly double the background radiation in my house

Does your watch have radium in the dial, or just the hands?

If it is just in the hands then you may be able to do the same.

The hands and all the dial markers

[LeeReynolds]

I've got two other watches that are like that, a "Louis" and a "Den-Ro"

I was able to remove the radium from the hands, but not the dials.

One now gives readings of ~ 1.5 microsieverts per hour.

The other now gives ~ 0.9 per hour.

I don't remember how "hot" these were before I removed the radium from the hands.

[jdrichard]

1 hour ago, LeeReynolds said:

I've got two other watches that are like that, a "Louis" and a "Den-Ro"

I was able to remove the radium from the hands, but not the dials.

One now gives readings of ~ 1.5 microsieverts per hour.

The other now gives ~ 0.9 per hour.

I don't remember how "hot" these were before I removed the radium from the hands.

 

1 hour ago, LeeReynolds said:

I've got two other watches that are like that, a "Louis" and a "Den-Ro"

I was able to remove the radium from the hands, but not the dials.

One now gives readings of ~ 1.5 microsieverts per hour.

The other now gives ~ 0.9 per hour.

I don't remember how "hot" these were before I removed the radium from the hands.

Brave man. I would not go near these things...let alone de-radiating them.

[LeeReynolds]

2 hours ago, jdrichard said:

 

Brave man. I would not go near these things...let alone de-radiating them.

Besides being continuously irradiated unnecessarily, my primary worry was accidental ingestion of the radium itself.

Here's the process I used on the hands, as presented by the world famous Nekkid Watchmaker:

 

[jdrichard]

14 hours ago, LeeReynolds said:

Besides being continuously irradiated unnecessarily, my primary worry was accidental ingestion of the radium itself.

Here's the process I used on the hands, as presented by the world famous Nekkid Watchmaker:

 

Thanks, I’ll have a look

[AndyHull]

I think what this all boils down to is...

Always wear gloves if you are removing anything toxic or radioactive. No need for lead lined ones, just something that will stop you absorbing stuff through your skin. A couple of pairs of standard latex "covid proof" ones will probably be fine. Even if you have worn gloves, (and particularly if you haven't) wash your hands carefully afterwards.

The same rules for radium apply for other relatively common hazards  such as lead, mercury, cadmium, low levels of asbestos and arguably even chrome. They and their compounds are all cumulative toxins, so the more you handle them, the more damage they could potentially be doing.

Having said that, I've been frequently using lead solder for years, and other than washing my hands afterwards, I don't worry too much about it. I suspect the majority of the lead in my tissues is probably from the days of leaded petrol rather than soldering.

Also, as stated previously, be aware that airborne dust is probably the major issue with radium (and heavy metals, asbestos etc.). Wear a dust mask, and keep everything "wet" with some suitable wetting agent if you can.

Dispose of the waste carefully.

Edited January 1, 2021 by AndyHull

[VWatchie]

On 5/4/2016 at 12:14 AM, dman2112 said:

Should I sell it?

Oh yes! It's extremely dangerous! Fortunately, I would be happy to save your health and possibly your life by taking it off you (I won't charge a penny). Just PM me! 

BTW, have any pictures of it? 

EDIT: Oops, just realized it was a very old thread and the OP hasn't been around for a long time.

Edited January 1, 2021 by VWatchie

[AndyHull]

BTW if you are asking yourself "Should I be worried about radioactive potassium in bananas"...
 

 

[Apestapatas]

I think at some point, as amateurs, we will ask ourselves this question.  It happened to me today when I put this “Eska” on the Geiger counter.  I was going to give it to my wife as a gift, I’m not to sure now.  I’m even a little worried about servicing it at my apartment with my daughter and wife.  I’ll have to read up on what precautions I would have to take.