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I have decided to take on a bit of a challenge and ad my contribution to the horological world by designing a custom build using the venus 170.  I have spent the last 3 months studying, learning, slaving, crying, destroying, getting to this point in my watchmaking/repairing level.  My first attempt was to tackle the Mount Everest (at least to me it is) of movements the 7750.  I was met with a lot of belittlement and criticism by a few in other forums.  To their point they were correct in many areas however I don't think I would have gone about it in any other fashion.  I still have yet to conquer that beast, however I have learned a ton.  I am almost there with the 7750.  After attempt 6 I have decided to put that movement to the side.  I have also spent a great deal of time working on the Elgin 462, which has also been quite a learning experience, and I have also yet to achieve success on that platform.  After doing some research and learning about the castle wheel, column wheel, pillar wheel or whatever other terms it goes by I decided to pick up one more challenge.  After doing some research and checking the wallet I stumbled onto the ARISTO Imports Chronograph with the venus 170 movement.  My goal is to restore this movement and to include it in a custom build.  I have ordered several other spares and intend to use them to reach my goal.  In addition I intend to finish with a robust walkthrough of this movement.  I have already reached out to many folks on this forum as well as reviewed scott mcafee's thorough thread on the movement.  I originally wanted to add onto scott's thread but after reading some posts I have leaned that this is not the correct way to go about recording this venture even though logic would say keeping like information together seems well......logical.  Anyhow I would ask that anybody and everybody include their comments and knowledge and even opinions.  I have thick skin and welcome any and all input.  I will do my best to give credit where credit is due.  I will start by adding a copy of the Esembl-O-Graf I downloaded from the Ohio State Library.  I found several copies but this one has the best quality.  I have also included a copy of Ebauches parts breakout guide (If that's what its called).  Thank you all in advance.  

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Venus 170.pdf

170.pdf

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I have completed disassembly but not without a casualty.  I broke the shaft on the Large Driving Wheel when trying to pull off the cannon pinion.  I also shot a rocker bar spring across the room.  I made a little magnet broom out of an old Swiffer and some magnetic tape which has help rescue some parts but I have yet to find that spring.  I ended up ordering one from CAS-KER.  As for the Large Wheel, I am hoping that the two spares I have on order have a good wheel in them.

 

 

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I used a fiberglass scratch brush and Radiant in the ultrasonic cleaner with VM&P Naptha for a final rinse.  All parts are sorted and separated.  I noticed some of the screws were a bit marred.  I don't know if its just me but this is a pet peeve of mine.  If anyone knows of a place where I can source some screws that would be helpful.  The main plate and bridge seem to be in great shape and cleaned up nicely.  I popped open the barrel and all seems to be ok with the main spring.  The balance seems to be in a good state as well.  lubes arrived yesterday.  I haven't decided on what to use on what as I am still doing research and gathering input from other forums.  I picked up 8300 grease, D5 and 9010.  I also have a synthetic from liberty that has good reviews although I do not know the specs on it.  There needs to bee some sort of break on the swiss lube industry......that stuff is pricy.  

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I have begun the process of sourcing a watch case and other components.  I have made contact with a lady who makes dials and has the ability to allow for a little bit of customization.  I have also begun to do a little research on hands, however the hands are dependent on the dial and the dial is dependent on the case, or I should say they are dependent on each other.  I have had a hard time finding sources for cases.  I am considering making the case form scratch.  I know I want the case to be a bronze material.  I am going to begin to model the case in Inventor and will likely have the prototype case cnc machined.  At least I will "try".  I have ordered various crowns and pushers, and a few crystals.  If I am unsuccessful at producing the case from scratch I will likely cannibalize from an old watch.  I will post some screen shots of the case model as soon as I have settled on a design in my head, so far I am leaning towards an old school pilot type or boxy sort of military.  I hope to begin reassembly of the movement this weekend, pending the arrival of spares.

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I have begun to model the case.  I will be using a crystal from CAS-KER.  I used the same internal dimensions from the original case.  I left a .5mm interference fit between the case and the crystal.  I have also sourced material from MSC.  Bronze billet bar stock.  I talked to my machinist and he is fairly confident he can program and cut the case.  I have begun to source pushers, unfortunately there aren't many in bronze.  I may end up using stainless in place of bronze.  Untitled.thumb.png.3a6ef89068fbc941eaef99d19fb7aefc.png

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This will be close to what my design is going to be. The case will actually be backwards. Im going to use a crystal on the front and back. I found some generic Hublot screws. The movement will be placed in from the front with a plate and crystal that is held on with screws. Im thinking about incorporating some sort of gasket or internal ring made of shock absorbing material since the balance lacks one. ddfad15579573af0e7f12f905e40c330.jpg

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Okay, I'm really excited to see how this plays out- I'll be checking back often.  :thumbsu:

I will say it's a tall order to produce a watch in the end that looks better than that Aristo though! 

Good luck- and please keep posting!

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Okay, I'm really excited to see how this plays out- I'll be checking back often.  :thumbsu:
I will say it's a tall order to produce a watch in the end that looks better than that Aristo though! 
Good luck- and please keep posting!
Thank you. If the spares come as Im thinking they will I may end up with two working movements, if that happens I will resurrect that Aristo as well.

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Minor distraction for today. However I did have a lengthy talk with my machinest regarding material selection. Updates to follow. 956f0cf628cadde9429d127ad5ba1b25.jpge9fcd2f3afd01ff451437a3b4bfa7350.jpg

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Spares have arrived. They seem to be in good shape. The balance on one of them is actually in good working condition. Oldhippy......the dial and hands on one of them is an aristo and is in good shape....perhaps its a sign!!!!!

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Spares have arrived. They seem to be in good shape. The balance on one of them is actually in good working condition. Oldhippy......the dial and hands on one of them is an aristo and is in good shape....perhaps its a sign!!!!!

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Photo attached. Just curious whats the best way to clean up this dial???280a2607b64c3641516b67ca7d8c662a.jpg

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That dial is perfectly aged.  Anything you do to it is likely to make it worse :mad:
Roger that.

I have attached an updated copy of the watch case model. I have also sourced most of the components. Pushers seem to be a bit of challenge.....as they are limited in design and they are expensive lol. As soon as they come in I can gether the dimensional information to incorporate them into the model. I have selected a stainless case with a bronze ring. The movement will be placed in from the front with a .3mm gasket between the case and face plate. Ive chosen a 3mm crystal for the front and a 1.5mm for the back of the case. Ive ordered several types of screws and will likely adjust the model once I get them in. I may even go for a counterbored option vs a countersink. Although I like these Hublot knock offs. I considered leaving the head of the screw protrude but it seems it may be a bit bulky and I do not want to detract from the movement itself. I ordered two configurations of dial, one white and one black and will incorporate them into the model once they come in as well. I will print a first run on the 3D printer for a dry fit before sending over to the CNC programmer. For now Im going to shift my focus back to the movement now that the spares have arrived.....afterall there isnt much point in making this case if im not successful in getting a viable movement in order. c6c61acb64e872084dcbe8b0361e039f.jpg

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Minor Discrepancy any Thoughts??

So I began disassembly of the two spares and I noticed that the two spares have a slightly different part than the origional one I purchased. I have placed a pic of the part as I do not know the correct term for it. It sits over the keyless work on the dial side. Strangely enough the original is an aristo which is the same as one of the spares. The part pictured bottom is from my origional aristo and the part poctured top is from one of the spares which is also an aristo. I checked the other spare and sure enough it has the same odd part. Its not just a different shape part as the two spares have two smaller gears associated with the different part where as the original only has one larger gear so im guessing its quite different. All three are stamped 170. When I checked the photo in the Esemble book sure enough it matches the two spares and not my original. I haven't looked at scotts photos to see which his matches. Anybody who can shed some light on this??6d7b4ebfa2ea70a2c7b15cacea870943.jpg

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Minor Discrepancy any Thoughts??

So I began disassembly of the two spares and I noticed that the two spares have a slightly different part than the origional one I purchased. I have placed a pic of the part as I do not know the correct term for it. It sits over the keyless work on the dial side. Strangely enough the original is an aristo which is the same as one of the spares. The part pictured bottom is from my origional aristo and the part poctured top is from one of the spares which is also an aristo. I checked the other spare and sure enough it has the same odd part. Its not just a different shape part as the two spares have two smaller gears associated with the different part where as the original only has one larger gear so im guessing its quite different. All three are stamped 170. When I checked the photo in the Esemble book sure enough it matches the two spares and not my original. I haven't looked at scotts photos to see which his matches. Anybody who can shed some light on this??6d7b4ebfa2ea70a2c7b15cacea870943.jpg&key=23d8a780a5d92136cc9e393c332d6d46f3daf85c51f21ce66a0be874e10e1ebb

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This is the rocking bar ( if you use the ebauches terminology-not the esembl-ograf).I came across both systems as well. Not interchangeable, I think. Other discrepancy I noticed is on the minute recording jumper base. Perhaps a more experienced watchmaker could help us here. I googled the venus 170 history and could not find a definite list of variations.


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Thanks. Man that stinks. So do you think its just the rocker bar assembly thats not interchangeable? I can see where the main plate is also affected but surely most of the other components are interchangeable. I will also do some digging to see what I can come up with. Let me know what you find and thanks for taking the time to chime in.

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 7:28 AM, marcoskaiser said:

The Hammer spring is also different. But seems interchangeable.11c1cc6d8e171c49f91639761fbb7cba.jpg


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While processing the first spare I took notes on all the differences....at least the ones I could see with the naked eye.  I have added that to the list of deliverables for this thread.  In fact if you consider the main plate there are actually 3 configurations.  It appears that they added a plate to the main plate to give it thickness and a beveled face on the dial side.  I would think this would change a lot of the shaft lengths.  Anyhow like I said once I process the 3rd spare I will summarize my findings with some photos.  I have searched the web and cannot find any information as to the subject of 170 configurations.  I don't know if it was an OEM configuration change or a secondary by the watch brand although this does not seem to be the case as I have 2 aristos both demonstrating different configs.  As for the build itself the crystals have come in and the pushers are on order.  I have also taken the step of purchasing my own FDM machine to produce design verifications.  

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HELP!!!

Durring assembly I snapped a screw. Now there is a peice of it left in the main plate. Unfortunately its below the surface with no way to grip it. Any suggestions on how to get it out? I have two other main plates but Id prefer to keep on trucking here.

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Well. I was able to get the screw removed by fashioning a tool from a set of tweezers. Oddly enough I wasnt able to find much using the search function so I ended up finding a video on you tube. Back to the assembly.

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Assembly is complete. However not without some issues. As you can see from the time graph im not getting a very good starting point. It does hve a heart beat though. I also noticed that when I have the stem pulled and am turning there seems to be a section in the turn that is a little rough feeling.866117352c125423e4463ab8234fca94.jpgd69a18c40747425d350430fb64811f70.jpg

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I placed an old dial and hands on the watch for a quick check. Somewhere something isnt put together correctly so I will be tearing this down and reassembling again. Its good practice. The second hand was functioning and the hand on the lower subdial was functioning. I think I may have an assembly issue where the flyback lever is placed. Its strange because it just rests in place. I did get it to set with the spring against the screw underneath but something doesnt seem correct as it pops when the button is depressed.

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    • By Oyster
      Hi everyone !
      I got quick question about Venus 170 at first the hands are stiff to turn so I put oil on the pivot, and is trun freely , but now the gear probably hade to much lubricate and cause the gear to run free ( hours hand and minute not move) do I have to remove the oli by cleaning the gear or is maybe a different problem like loosen and need to tighten up ? 
      Thank you ! 

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