Clock competition

[oldhippy]

It has been some time. So here is a fun one.

I would like you to tell me what country this clock is from.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-18th-Century-Mantle-Clock/192755206316?hash=item2ce11b08ac:g:9YIAAOSwbKdcD~Au

 

[oldhippy]

No one going to have a go.

[wls1971]

Still trying to work this one out those Baluster pillars look huge I could only hazard a guess I don't think this is English it dosn't seem to conform to any style of English clock production, its quite late for a verge, I don't think its french being a triple fusee,  i'm thinking Dutch, or Austrian.

[StuartBaker104]

All very intriguing and beyond my knowledge, but looking at it raises some questions...

1. I would guess that the movement is not original to the case - I’m taking this from the commentary about the case being gouged out and the state of the back plate. Seems odd that such a complex movement would have originally been butchered into a case.

2. The movement pillars are very decorative and not like those I’ve seen on English clocks. Strange to me that one has been heavily cut away to accommodate the bell hammer arm.

3. The winding holes are placed oddly on the dial, and spoil the look of the hands as they pass over. I would guess this movement originally had a bigger dial

4. All the holes on the backplate suggest the bells have been moved around

All that said, I have no idea where it was made, but I’ll take a punt at France...

[Geo]

I'll have a go; 19th century Chinese.

[Lenj]

Black Forest?

 

[oldhippy]

Wis1971

What makes you think it could be Austrian and not German?

[wls1971]

I have seen a number of Austrian clocks that have the arched lower case portion with visible pendulum, also the flower motif both on the case and the movement screws appears to have been popular at some point on Austrian clocks I have seen these both carved in wooden cases and as ormolu mounts, And all the German fusee clocks of the period I have seen have wooden movement plates.

The very large baluster pillars I have seen on both Austrian and Dutch clocks.

[oldhippy]

The clock is Dutch. He is a very old boy with dutch striking, that is why it has three bells low high and another pitch for the hour.

[wls1971]

Do you think the date scratched into the case of 1780 is correct or is this clock older than that ? and does this style of dutch clock have a specific name ?

[oldhippy]

I would expect it to be older. The seller mentions ratchet wheels and clicks are rough and appear to be handmade. Also mentioned, he thinks is the word “fecit “which means he or she. I would like to really have a good look at it before I really make up my mind. That is all I can say just by going by those few photos. It is a Dutch bracket clock with Dutch striking.  

[wls1971]

I read a description of dutch striking which is in its self a interesting way of striking, it strikes the hour on the low pitch bell, at the half hour it strikes the next preceding hour on a high pitch bell so at the 6:30 it would give 7 strikes, this I have read came about because of a peculiar way the dutch say what time it is, where we would say it is half past six, the dutch would have said it is half an hour to seven. This clock I believe would be a more unusual form of quarter hour striking I presume on the even lower pitch bell giving one strike at quarter past and one strike at quarter to.

This interesting article gives a description of different striking sequences used in clocks,

http://www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/Murray-striking.pdf

And this page gives a very nice description of Dutch striking and details of a rare repeating Tompion longcase clock employing dutch striking:

http://www.antique-horology.org/_Editorial/Tompion145/DEFAULT.HTM

[oldhippy]

Thanks I have that pdf.

[StuartBaker104]

Can anyone explain why there are 3 winding barrels to achieve this? Are there 2 separate striking trains?

[oldhippy]

Yes that is correct. Looking at this photo you can see which strike side would operate the hammers. They would also need the springs to be the right force to run together, to compensate this the two hammers are lighter than the single one.