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Needed - Citizens 8110A Service Manual


Wdc

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Can anyone point me in the direction of a Citizens 8110A Service Manual? I have been poking around the web but have not come up with a full manual.

I have found someone selling 17-page PDF 8110A manual on ebay which I can buy but hate to if it can be found somewhere in the public domain.

Just finishing up the restoration on a 8110-9011 Bullhead (Panda), whereas the movement is in clean,  I notice the balance stopping in some positions so I would like to do a strip-down and service. It would be nice to have the full manual with schematics.

Thanks in advance,

Will  

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Edited by Wdc
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21 hours ago, oldhippy said:

 

 

19 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi will,

I have overhauled several 8110.    Beautiful movement and pivot jewel design.

 Take pictures at each stage of strip down, specially the keyless and chorono mech.

Regards joe

 

 

@Nucejoe

Hello Joe, having experience stripping down several 8110A movements. Can you tell me if to two screws in the photo below are left hand thread?

There is no mention of LH in the BOM or schematic, but I have had an experience (a bad one) with these three grooved screw heads on a Seiko.

I pretty much have the Cal stripped ready for the washer, but though I better phause and reach out before making a mistake I regret.  

The screws are: Ratchet Wheel and Piller Wheel

Thanks in advance,

Will

1294380039_!-WRTQuestion8110-1.thumb.jpg.be45759a5f50c3f312b4e96e526d068e.jpg

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Sorry for late response, internet trouble most of the day.

Lucky johnR and others were available. But looks like they didn,t get there in time either.

Yes the three slot is indicative of left thresds, that is so the screws reamins tight. Same with automobile wheel bolts.

Both broke?   

Merry christmas in advance that happy ocasion you wouldn,t want to screw up.

Another pain is the chrono push buttons, don,t remove unless faulty. The ring is a real pain keeps falling off unless you replace with brand new ones.

The keyless and chrono is a complex complication too. Take pictures and examine the works to familiarize with.

Sorry sorry.

 

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No need for sorry, this was all my bad. John had responded in plenty of time, the problem was LEFT on the brain. I moved from the keyboard to the ratchet gear and turned to the left to loosen, Wrong!

Fortunately, only the barrel arbor and I’ve already fished it out. The piller wheel went fine when turning to the RIGHT.

Only loss was the screw and the parts are in the cleaner now.

Thanks again to all

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3 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Sorry for late response, internet trouble most of the day.

Lucky johnR and others were available. But looks like they didn,t get there in time either.

Yes the three slot is indicative of left thresds, that is so the screws reamins tight. Same with automobile wheel bolts.

Both broke?   

Merry christmas in advance that happy ocasion you wouldn,t want to screw up.

Another pain is the chrono push buttons, don,t remove unless faulty. The ring is a real pain keeps falling off unless you replace with brand new ones.

The keyless and chrono is a complex complication too. Take pictures and examine the works to familiarize with.

Sorry sorry.

 

@Nucejoe,  To late on the chrono push buttons, those came out last week while refurbishing the case & likes. Noted on the c-clips hopefully they stay. If they do need replaced is a supplier for these?

Also, roger on the keyless, chrono and photos. I’ve always been a big photo taker (the bread crumb back), there cheap and quick to delete. The fact is, I‘m almost embarrassed to disclose the number photo taken on this strip-down, 244…lol  That by the number of parts and the ratio is pretty high lol

Not sure why, but I was a bit nervous going into his one and played to caution.  As a novice this 8110A Citizen seamed a bit more complex then the Seiko 6139’s I’ve been focusing on.

Well thanks again,

Will

PS one thing I could use advice. I did not completely disassemble the bottom side of the “upper end escape wheel bridge” photo directly below. Does not look like much on it, thinking it would clean assembled.  Your thoughts 

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Hi will,     Yes the c-clips, once removed/ replaced get flimsy.. The push buttons too, sometimes wont function as should mostly due to crowns not freely sliding back on stem tube. Stretch the push button springs, strengthens them for better push button returns.

The pix are mainly for your own reference and if they ever need posted , on ocasions others may see a fault you havn,t noticed.

The escape jewel assembly is small but a common design.I remove the jewel cab to clean and check the jewel, though never found one broken. 

I can,t open the pix you sent, ipad is ill going to hospital normally gets well in thirty minutes.

Regards

 

 

 

 

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Hi will, how are you doing and what about the citizen 8110A? I presume all cleaned awaitng replacement screw.

The escape jewel assembly is like any incabloc design, it is just smaller in size. I use tweezers ( fine enough for hairspring manipulation) to unlock the inabloc spring,  Other than escape jewel/cab assembly all else on escape bridge has normal size and need no special handling.

I don,t know about parts suppliers in your country.Good planing on your part to start on chrono with a citizen.

Just to make sure I can keep in touch, all msgs via forums msging service have so far got to my inbox  and they get posted as well.

So let me know, when you let reassmbley begin.

Regards joe

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well Gentlemen & Women,  

It is kickoff day for a new assembly (ASSY) of a Citizen 67- 9011 Chrono Bullhead. Using kickoff loosely as I started some 10-14 days back with disassembly and finding a broken mainspring which took some time to find. I had tried to buy 3-4 of this MS (for future projects) but was told this is the last of a discontinued part of which I received yesterday.  

Unlike the Seiko 6139 Cal. where there can be found tons of service documents and manuals.  I have had little luck finding Citizen service manuals, other than the part schematic kindly offered by @JohnR725 and kind advise from @Nucejoe. Thankfully we are in the age of the digital camera, of which I have long ago learned to use as an assistant to my lacking skill and crutch to my failing memory. 

With 212 disassembly photos in hand (every photo is taken on three side to offset glare), along with the new MS, we start the reverse-disassembly. Thanking in advance for the gracious advise, help  and guidance I will undoubtedly fall back on while calling for help along the way.  

Regard,

Will

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Citizen 002-65-001.jpg

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Hi will,  With such a compilation of pix and working with you johnR, geo,Nickelsilver, clockboy and a host of other well experienced folks pouring in advice, not only an excellent outcome is yours,.but this could be a good walkthrough and example of how to go about servicng a complication at first encounter, well almost first encounter. 

Regards joe

 

 

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Well thanks.

I will say that I wish I had incorporated a new step I now use when taking disassembly pics, every part removed is photo’d with the screws next to it.  Something I started after tearing this Citizen Cal. down.  

I found myself making mistakes re-assembling the 6139’s when it came to remember what screw is used where. You think you can remember starting out but until you have stripped enough down to remember what goes where, it’s a good tip. Its just a digital pic, cheap to take, cheap to delete :)

PS: I don’t put a note on each one, unless there is something special, I need to remember. The part and screw generally enough to jog your memory

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And on the tip front, here is anther habit of mine. During the teardown I separate the parts in some type of logic (as we all do) but I will take the periodic photo of my parts tray. By photoing the tray I document what parts are where and when.  When a part goes missing I find myself going though the photos, finding the part and then following it while trying to nudge a clue to its whereabout (or at least to point of exit). 

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Good morning Gentlemen & Ladies attached is a quick video update on my Citizen 8110A caliber (or calibre as used across the pond). I am pretty far along on the drive wheel train side of things, ready to drop in the “Chrono Bridge”. 

A couple small questions on lubrication points but other than that, straight forward.  

What I neglected to mention in the video is that I am using D-5 on the lever arms pivots and friction points. As I understand D-5 is good for slow moving, high friction points which I have interpreted levers as being a D-5 application.  Alternatively one could use 9501 typically reserved for the keyless works but I have not seen it done. Lastly 9010 on the wheel train pivots.  

If you see any parts in my parts tray that should have already been incorporated, please speak up.  

Regards,

Will 

PS: one area touched on yesterday was the screws and identifying where they go. This assembly really drives home for me the importance of taking a photo of the part along with its respective screws as they are removed. It really saves time when wondering and second guessing your self on what screw goes where.

 

 

 

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BTW the lever I am referencing on the Chrono Bridge from the Citizens schematic & BOM is a “PN: 265, Connection lever of hour blocking lever”. Not sure how it works, with the bridge installed, the pin on the pivoting lever is constrained by the hole so it cannot pivet. :unsure:

 

 

Regards,

Will

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Hi will,  I found several  partially stripped down movement in my stuff, good guide so as for as what goes where also on some chrono works. What I can do is to remove parts to get to the ones you like to see function of or parts involved.

Examing them now to see what details I can remember of the cbrono works 

So far as info on lubricants use, I date back to stone ages.

Also helps if you write as well the questions,  my listening is out of tune I am affriad.

Regards joe

 

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For anyone else needing the full Technical Manual for Citizen watches, it has been posted on anther site over the last few days. It is broken up into downloadable sizes,4-5 sections around 200 pages.

https://www.thewatchsite.com/14-user-manual-technical-manual-casing-guide-downloads/171138-1971-citizen-technical-information.html 

All the best and Merry Christmas

Will

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On 12/23/2018 at 7:42 AM, Wdc said:

What I neglected to mention in the video is that I am using D-5 on the lever arms pivots and friction points. As I understand D-5 is good for slow moving, high friction points which I have interpreted levers as being a D-5 application.  Alternatively one could use 9501 typically reserved for the keyless works but I have not seen it done. Lastly 9010 on the wheel train pivots

lubrication always an interesting subject?  D5 is a nice lubrication although it's supposedly being replaced by the HP oils I have a link below which talks about the various oils. One of the reasons you probably don't see a lot of 9501 being used is it's expensive and typically at least hobbyists don't like expensive lubrication's. Then the 9010 9020 would be better for the  wheel train pivots as it's a little heavier. The trends seems to be for heavier lubricants anyway and 9010 is  universally regarded as the balance pivots oil.

http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/oils

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On 12/27/2018 at 1:33 PM, JohnR725 said:

lubrication always an interesting subject?  D5 is a nice lubrication although it's supposedly being replaced by the HP oils I have a link below which talks about the various oils. One of the reasons you probably don't see a lot of 9501 being used is it's expensive and typically at least hobbyists don't like expensive lubrication's. Then the 9010 9020 would be better for the  wheel train pivots as it's a little heavier. The trends seems to be for heavier lubricants anyway and 9010 is  universally regarded as the balance pivots oil.

http://www.moebius-lubri9501cants.ch/en/products/oils

@JohnR725

Thanks for the info on lubricant trends, very informative.

If heavier viscosities are trending for the wheel train, in the future I will substitute 9020 or 9020-film for the 9010.

If cost is the reason, we not seeing more 9501 used, I may start substituting 9510 for D-5 in some of the lever pivots (non-rotating higher-pressure points) where common since tells you that a grease type of viscosity and/or product may be better suited then an oil.

As always, thank for responding.

PS: For anyone familiar with the Citizen 8110A movement, I will be posting some questions on an assembly I am having problems with. The balance complete stopping and not perpetually running after rebuilding. 

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  • 5 months later...
On 12/22/2018 at 9:59 AM, Wdc said:

Well thanks.

I will say that I wish I had incorporated a new step I now use when taking disassembly pics, every part removed is photo’d with the screws next to it.  Something I started after tearing this Citizen Cal. down.  

I found myself making mistakes re-assembling the 6139’s when it came to remember what screw is used where. You think you can remember starting out but until you have stripped enough down to remember what goes where, it’s a good tip. Its just a digital pic, cheap to take, cheap to delete :)

PS: I don’t put a note on each one, unless there is something special, I need to remember. The part and screw generally enough to jog your memory

20181215_114008.jpg

20181215_091609.jpg

Hi WDC  , I just came across your post as I was looking for Info to service a Citizen 8110A Bullhead I just acquired . I too had mostly worked Seiko 6138 & 9's , and a few Swiss Chrono's .

   And as I'm sure everyone agrees , you can never take too many pics on strip down for reassembly . Sometimes on a complicated or busy movement that I am not used to , I will take pics before disassembly . then practice the reassembly right then just to reinforce my memory . 

I also draw pics with my own hieroglyphics and use ice cube trays to hold my parts with their respective screws . This also helps to reverse engineer , or re-assemble the parts in the order you removed them . 

Thank You and the rest of the members for making this project fun and informative .

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