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Elma Watch Cleaning Machine


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3 hours ago, Halvis said:

Oh cr@p..

I have been handling this without any precautions at all.

Zero worries. If it was dangerous for final users or inhabitants of these materials we would be all dead now. Just as with Radium, it's the continued (as in many years) exposure (inhalation) in manufacturing environments that kills.

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2 hours ago, jdm said:

Zero worries

You have to inform yourself well before you reassure people about asbestos.
Radium is absorbed into your bones and irradiate permanently the bone marrow so you run a lot of risk on leukemia.

Make sure you do not get these substances inside, and clean up all the radium dust well, the half-life is 1600 years!

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8 minutes ago, Kraai said:

You have to inform yourself well before you reassure people about asbestos.
Radium is absorbed into your bones and irradiate permanently the bone marrow so you run a lot of risk on leukemia.

Make sure you do not get these substances inside, and clean up all the radium dust well, the half-life is 1600 years!

Make sure you understand the level of exposition needed for a real danger before spreading fear.

I can quote them here from scientific sources, but I hope that won't be necessary unless you insist.

BTW. In my country there have been hundreds or thousands of deaths already among extraction and processing workers, and still there are. It is not matter that anyone takes lightly, but information is key

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On 29/12/2017 at 10:28 PM, Kraai said:

This looks like asbestos, could be dangerous by inhaling invisibly small fibers.
You can replace it with a silicone plate, or make it yourself from heat-resistant liquid silicone gasket for cars.

I agree with Kraai, it does look like asbestos, and given the age of the machine it probably is. What's more it appears to be in a friable state (at the edges) which means it has the potential to release fibres, so I would advise cautious handling.

Best thing to do with it is to put it into a ziplock bag, wipe around the area where you have been handling it with a damp cloth and put the cloth into the ziplock bag as well. Don't vacuum as this risks any renegade fibres becoming airbourne. Then dispose of the bag in an appropriate manner.

It is unlikely that this single exposure to asbestos (if that is what it is) will have any untoward consequences, however if anyone's interested I have posted some thoughts on the matter here;

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/7779-asbestos/?tab=comments#comment-75815

As for a suitable replacement, try searching eBay (or other) for heat resistant mat or for silicone trivet. You can pick up a silicone trivet mat (intended for kitchen use) for very little, it's easy to cut to size, and from a very quick search it seems to be good for temperatures up to 240C. Funky colours too....

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I agree with Kraai, it does look like asbestos, and given the age of the machine it probably is. What's more it appears to be in a friable state (at the edges) which means it has the potential to release fibres, so I would advise cautious handling.
Best thing to do with it is to put it into a ziplock bag, wipe around the area where you have been handling it with a damp cloth and put the cloth into the ziplock bag as well. Don't vacuum as this risks any renegade fibres becoming airbourne. Then dispose of the bag in an appropriate manner.
It is unlikely that this single exposure to asbestos (if that is what it is) will have any untoward consequences, however if anyone's interested I have posted some thoughts on the matter here;
https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/7779-asbestos/?tab=comments#comment-75815
As for a suitable replacement, try searching eBay (or other) for heat resistant mat or for silicone trivet. You can pick up a silicone trivet mat (intended for kitchen use) for very little, it's easy to cut to size, and from a very quick search it seems to be good for temperatures up to 240C. Funky colours too....
It has been months since I took the heater apart. I did it outdoors as the machine and especially the heater was unbelievably dirty. The asbestos plate was stuck to both the heating element and the heater base, so I probably released a lot of fibres taking them apart. The asbestos plate has been stored in a ziplock bag since, but I have taken it out a couple of times and handled it.
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20 minutes ago, Halvis said:

It has been months since I took the heater apart. I did it outdoors as the machine and especially the heater was unbelievably dirty. The asbestos plate was stuck to both the heating element and the heater base, so I probably released a lot of fibres taking them apart. The asbestos plate has been stored in a ziplock bag since, but I have taken it out a couple of times and handled it.

Given that you took it apart out in the open then unless you had the wind blowing directly into your face the likelihood of inhaling any fibres is negligible. I certainly wouldn't be losing any sleep over it. And it may not even be asbestos anyway.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all

I currently use the trusted Elma Super Elite cleaning machine at home, but lately the speed control has been playing up. As in, it is no longer adjustable. The trouble is that it is now set at a rather high spinning speed, a bit more than I am comfortable with. The adjustment knob was working fine and allowing a good range of speed control only a few days ago.

This seems to be quite frequent on these machines judging by my initial googling on the subject.

However I could not find any detailed, conclusive solutions. 

I will have a look inside it at the weekend and see if there are any obvious issues, but I thought I would ask for advice here first.

Has anyone successfully replaced the rheostat (I believe this is what is used to control the basket rotational speed)? 

Has anyone "upgraded" to an electronic control? 

I would welcome any advice!

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I have a couple links that might give you some help. You'll probably have to get the speed control out so we can look at it. Then more than likely some form of substitute may be needed.

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/903-elma-master-watch-cleaning-machine-wiring-diagramuser-manual/

Then for this one he has four parts this goes to the first part you have to go the home page and scroll down to find the rest of the parts It also looks like his blog pictures are in the discussion above so everything may actually be above rather than going through his blog.

https://ssteelwatchrepairs.wordpress.com/2014/11/02/restoring-my-elma-super-elite-watch-parts-cleaning-machine/

 

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Thank you very much indeed John.

I went through this thread and I have learnt that there is probably nothing wrong with my machine!

My concern over the lack of adjustment was raised as I was looking at the basket spinning out of the fluid during the drying phase. I thought it looked too quick (i guess i never really paid attention before, i have not been using this machine for very long at all) - so I tried to adjust the speed, and found the speed control was not doing anything. As i kept testing speed control either outside the fluid or with no basket,  same result, no adjustment possible.

Reading through Micky's thread, if I understand correctly I believe this is normal and is due to the type of motor used (inductive motor, speed fixed by frequency i.e. Constant). The rheostat controls the power to the motor. The resistance of the rheostat is such that it provides a wide range of control when there is resistance from the fluid with the basket - i am quoting below RicardoG's post which explains it better than I can:

QUOTE

This kind of motor is called induction motor or inductive motor. The speed is a directly proportion to the frequency of the source that supply it. In this case, 50 Hz. The tension applied to it's terminals only give the power to turn. The number of the coils of the motor fix the speed and less coils more speed. Normally in this application the motor have two or four coils (two will turn faster than four). This kind of motor was used in vinil record players because as the source frequency is very stable, the speed of the turntable will be too. With a reostat in series with the motor supply you only change the power making the motor strong or weak. O course if you have some obstacles to fight like the fluid resistence of the cleanning liquid, reducing the power, indirectly you will reduce the speed. That's why when you turn it on outside the liquid the speed raise to the top limit. You can lower the speed outside the liquid using a reostat with high resistece value, and the motor will lower the speer against the atrit between the axis and the supports, that it is not perfect. However, if you do this, when the basket is inside the liquid, the reostat will only increase the speed at the end of his cursor, and the speed will have a fast icrease with a small turn of the reostat.

One more tip. The energy that is not used by the motor (in the lower speed) will be burned by the reostat. So, when you adjust for lower speeds, it is normal to the reostat to heat.

UNQUOTE

I have since tested my machine again, with a basket this time, and speed control is good when the basket is immersed in the fluid. So I do not get good control of the speed only when the basket is spinning outside the fluid, which I understand from the above must be normal?

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/15/2017 at 2:13 PM, highquality said:

We use an old Greiner vcs something, which does the job perfectly.

But what do you guys do about the cleaning solution smell? Even though we use an extra room with the windows open, the elma wf pro and suprol solution still make me dizzy.

Anybody got any tips?

Sorry for piggybacking your thread

Taking up an old thread. Bought some Elma suprol and i can't stand the smell of it.  The whole room smells.   I can't say i recommend it. Wonder if it's okay to clean the car with? 

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1 hour ago, rogart63 said:

Taking up an old thread. Bought some Elma suprol and i can't stand the smell of it.  The whole room smells.   I can't say i recommend it. Wonder if it's okay to clean the car with? 

So to ride alone for the next year? Hihi

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  • 2 months later...

I have just found this on ebay. I have nothing to do with the sale.

Here is an opportunity to buy a good auto-cleaning machine. You need to live in the UK as it collection only.  Take a look at the video.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watchmakers-L-R-Tempo-400-Automatics-Watch-Parts-Cleaning-Machine/302770626852?hash=item467e892124:g:AQAAAOSwnTpbIXmo

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32 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I have just found this on ebay. I have nothing to do with the sale.

 

Here is an opportunity to buy a good auto-cleaning machine. You need to live in the UK as it collection only.  Take a look at the video.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watchmakers-L-R-Tempo-400-Automatics-Watch-Parts-Cleaning-Machine/302770626852?hash=item467e892124:g:AQAAAOSwnTpbIXmo

Hi oldhippy, Nice machine for a pro repair shop. I don`t do much and only for people I know and recommendations. I am still on a U/S cleaner and a brush or two with careful use of Acetone and Naphtha etc. Cheap like my customers!! They have mainly old up market watches but will not pay high prices for repairs although some are very valuable. Well, thank you for your recent help, I`m obliged. Regards, Old Jobber Fixer (if you`re lucky) Mike.

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  • 2 months later...

Hello,
I have recently bought an older ELMA watch cleaning machine which has a mounting prepared for the mesh basket module. Looking at Cousins or similar shops (even ebay), the brand new 64mm baskets+cage is quite expensive add-on, considering the bargain price of £128 for the whole machine.

Now, is there a chance someone here has a spare basket? or do you think it is worth to wait and scan ebay for any old basket rather than buying the ~£100 new one?

Thank you for any advice.

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There are many machines out there missing baskets, and most folks like to have at least a couple of sets, so doubtful someone would want to part with them. Ebay will show some eventually. They've often lived a hard life but Lititz in the U.S. sells plastic baskets to fit the standard frame for a very good price.

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43 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

They've often lived a hard life but Lititz in the U.S. sells plastic baskets to fit the standard frame for a very good price

Sorry I am not from the US, what is Lititz? COuld you please post a link? Thanks.

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  • 2 months later...

My great Aunt died a couple years back. She had had been married to a man that owned a jewelry store back in the early 80's. In her estate was a number of great treasures and even literal gems.  After the estate sale not much was left, but I did end up with what Ive deduced to be a Vintage Elma watch parts cleaner.  And that is about as much as I have been able to figure out. None of the searches I've performed on the internet have returned with the exact model that I have. Not even an image... Similar , yes. The same . no. ..

I don't have a clue as to how to operate any watch parts cleaner, much less one with minimal text (german) to clue one in on function of switches and dials. So, I can't verify it is in working order. I did notice that the plug had a short in it so I replaced that, Plugged it in and a light above the switch lights up after being flipped, but again end of my road of investigation... So basically, I would really appreciate any information at all about this machine

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You turn it on by the switch. The big dial in the centre you set for minutes you want it to spin in each jar, if working properly when the time is up a bell should ring. You lift the centre rod up in the middle that’s attached to the basket and lift it to spin off.  Release the handle on the main shaft and lift, move the basket to the next jar and repeat. You can change the time to however many minutes you want. I cannot remember if the heater warms up automatically or if it needs to be switched on.

 

 

Here is Marks video.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtQhRKPgjY4

  Here is a photo of what you have.  

ELMA Super Elite Cleaning Machine Img 01.jpg

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