Grandfather Clock - Urgos - different model

[Folkvisor]

I have it cleaned oiled and working but it isn't in beat. I've moved the fork to adjust the beat but it still goes in and out of beat.

The beat is even for a while and then becomes uneven.

Any suggestions?

Dave

PS - I've heard nothing from the owner of the last Grandfather Clock I got working so I assume it's still OK.

[oldhippy]

If the depth of the pallets are wrong then it will slowly stop, no matter if it sounds in beat. You need to adjust the height. It is always a good idea to mark the plate where it is screwed, so you can put it back at the correct level. If it is one of those movements where the pallets are friction tight to the crutch, if it is too loose that will also stop. That’s the ones where the crutch screws onto the pallet shaft.   

[Folkvisor]

OK, I'll monitor it for a while longer. The pallet height seemed to be OK; at least they come in contact with the escape wheel.

They also seemed to be fasted to the pallet shaft tight enough - albeit friction tight. Again, I'll monitor it.

Thank you for letting me know what, specifically, to check.

[oldhippy]

Are you sure the power is getting through?

[Folkvisor]

That is a concern. I know it is getting through but I have a suspicion that the full power of the weight is somehow being held back.

The clock was knocked over twice and I am thinking that something may have been knocked out of place.

I has been working now for about 8 hours but I'm not convinced it has full power.

How can I check that?

[oldhippy]

Put all the wheels in the lathe to make sure they run true, check for bent pivots, modern clock pivots are mostly made of a soft metal and bend easy. The plates should be laid on something flat, a sheet of glass to check to see if the plates due to a fall are not bent. End shake needs to be checked. Put each set of wheels in, screw up the plates. If the wheels drop on their own from one side of the plate to the other that tells you they are free, if one doesn’t move you know which needs sorting out. Pivots in modern clocks should be burnished because they are soft and rough up easily. Make sure all the teeth are good and not bent. Have you re-bushed any holes? if so are they correct in depth.

If you can sort all that and try it. If it still stops get back to me and I’ll have to put my thinking cap on.

[Folkvisor]

Thank you for the suggestions. I have checked end shake on the pivots and everything I could see looked loose but I will have another look at them. It is hard for me to tell if everything is moving/dropping down. I will try it again. And your idea to make sure the plates aren't bent is something I hadn't done; I never thought it was necessary but having been knocked over twice probable didn't help the situation. 

There are no oblong holes.

The teeth all look OK on the gears and pinions. The teeth on the escape wheel are kind of strange looking but they are all the same all round so I guess that has something to do with how the pallet acts on it. There is some rust in places but it doesn't seem to be a huge problem and it won't rub off so it's now part of the clock. It is mostly on the pinions.

It has been running now for more than 12 hours but I think it would still be a good idea to give it another cleaning.

BTW - Someone put some kind of graphite suspension on the escape wheel and I had a dickens of a time getting it all cleaned off. It was hardened and I'm sure it was the main cause of the clock stopping.

I was wondering if you think it's a good idea to put oil on the pinions. Some say gear teeth of any kind shouldn't be oiled. I'd never do it on a watch.

Thank you for your considered and detailed answers.

Dave

 

 

[oldhippy]

Never oil the pinions. The escape wheel teeth are the only teeth that oil should be put on and the pallet faces.

[Folkvisor]

OK. Thank you.

I'll clean the clock again then to take the oil off the pinions. It probably needs it anyway.

Dave

 

 

[Folkvisor]

I have it working but the tick on the left side of the pendulum side (back) is sometimes followed by a double tock on the other side. This happens approximately every 4 swings of the pendulum.

All the plate surfaces are OK but, so far, I haven't checked all the pivots. I'm sure the two falls didn't help at all.

I've never heard of a clock being knocked over before this. I'm sure there would've been hell to pay if I'd ever knocked over my grandparents' clock...

The pallet adjusts moves when the crutch is adjusted but it doesn't seem loose.

[Folkvisor]

I'm a piano tuner and I often come across situations where the customer thinks is disastrous and I fix it in 5 minutes. Experience really matters - I'm sure it's no different with clocks or watches for that matter.

[Folkvisor]

I was wondering, since it is quite easy to move the crutch on the pallet staff - if that's the correct name - is the clock somewhat self-regulating?

It seems to me it's almost a kind of clutch like the cannon pinion on a watch that needs to be tight enough to move with the train drive but will allow itself to have to time set when necessary.

[oldhippy]

The pallet adjusts moves when the crutch is adjusted but it doesn't seem loose. This needs to be fixed, That could cause the double tock. 

I was wondering, since it is quite easy to move the crutch on the pallet staff - if that's the correct name - is the clock somewhat self-regulating?

No it should be able to put its self inbeat.

[Folkvisor]

How do I fix the crutch problem?

[oldhippy]

Can you post a good photo. That will help me.

[Folkvisor]

OK. I'll try. What part of the clock do you want me to photograph?

[oldhippy]

Pallets and the crutch.

[Folkvisor]

[Folkvisor]

There they are.

They've made that a lot easier than I remember.

[oldhippy]

Red arrows. Are these holding the pallets tight in place?

Green arrow is that friction tight on the pallet staff.

[Folkvisor]

I will check it as soon as I can and let you know. Probably tomorrow. 

My wife has piano students around and I can't get to it. Sorry...

Thank you for this detail though!

[Folkvisor]

I just finished fixing a flute. It's a bit like working on a watch...

[Folkvisor]

The pallet 'fasteners' seem to be quite secure; nothing is loose.

I am assuming, if the clock is self-regulating, the pallet needs to be able to 'self-adjust'; if so how much force would be needed to move it. 

The clock seems to have settled down now; there is no double tick anymore.

It's been running quite nicely for the last 30 hours or so.

[oldhippy]

You keep making the mistake saying it is self regulating. It is not,  if the crutch screws onto the pallets the chances are it will put its self in beat.  Many French clocks are made to put them self's in beat. You just swing the pendulum and leave it to sort its self out.

[Folkvisor]

O, ok. Is there a method for making sure the fasteners (red arrows) are as tight as they should be? They are close to the pallets and I think it is tight enough. The green arrow one is also fitted tightly. 

I think the clock is running fine but don't really know that much; I've only worked on 5 clocks and they were all different types. I have no idea at this point if it's running fast or slow but that's relatively easy to adjust.

I think the French clock was the most finicky movement. The mantle clocks and the grandfather clocks seem easier to handle.