ETA 2832 4th wheel seating

[AdamC]

Hello, I've been struggling for two evenings now to fit the train bridge on this ETA 2832. Every time it looks like all pivots are aligned through the jewel holes and I begin tightening the bridge, the wheels begin locking up. On closer examination, it looks to me like the 4th wheel is not seating flush against the centre tube as shown in one of my photos. I believe this because the pinion on the 4th wheel is higher than that of the escape wheel, and equally about the same measurement out between the 4th wheel and the 3rd wheel pinion, which is lower. It also looks like the 4th wheel is fouling under the train bridge.

In your opinion, would my suspicion be correct or should the 4th wheel's pinion rest approx. 1 to 1.5mm above the flange of the centre tube. If it should be flush, do you have any tips to seating it as such? I have obviously tried carefully wriggling it under light pressure without luck. I've added an extra photo showing the placed wheels during disassembly to give some context.

Thanks in advance 

Edited November 7, 2018 by AdamC

[jaycey]

Forget about wiggling & light pressure. All drivetrain wheel should drop straight into their pivots with zero pressure or friction.

 

Go back to basics.

Starting with the barrel, check that the barrel cap is installed correctly.

Then start fitting one wheel at a time, installing the train bridge and ensuring that each individual wheel is seated correctly and rotating freely until you find the culprit.

Once you find the wheel that is causing the problem, check its pivot isn't damaged or bent and that the jewel is in good condition and hasn't been pushed out of place.

 

Good luck.

[Nucejoe]

Hi AdamC,   Reffering to the mainplate pic you prodided , pic No 1

Check the center tube. Pic 1 shows it sticking put.

Provide if you will, a pic from the other side of the mainplate ,showing the center tube.

Regards joe

[Nucejoe]

4 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi AdamC,   Reffering to the mainplate pic you prodided , pic No 1

Check the center tube. Pic 1 shows it sticking put.

Provide if you will, a pic from the other side of the mainplate ,showing the center tube.

Regards joe

Correction , pic No 1 shows it sticking out.

[AdamC]

Go back to basics. Starting with the barrel, check that the barrel cap is installed correctly.
Then start fitting one wheel at a time, installing the train bridge and ensuring that each individual wheel is seated correctly and rotating freely until you find the culprit.
Once you find the wheel that is causing the problem, check its pivot isn't damaged or bent and that the jewel is in good condition and hasn't been pushed out of place.
 
Good luck.

Thanks Jaycey, because the watch is over 40 years old I decided to pay a little extra and purchase a barrel complete so no worries there. I have exhaustively removed, inspected under 20x mag (including jewel holes), and placed each wheel individually. The only one that seems to not seat properly is the 4th wheel, though I haven’t noticed anything damaged/bent on it. This kind of leads me to conclude that it could be the centre tube/post that is giving me the grief. There is a flange I can feel inside the tube when inserting the wheel but with a little gentle rocking it drops in past this no problem to where it rests just short of the top of the tube as shown.

All parts were ultrasonically cleaned.

I noticed during disassembly that the canon pinion/wheel combination came off with zero pressure and was surprised as I normally use my removal tool for this making me wonder if the 4th wheel needed to snap in from the top plate? However, as you say, they should be zero force from my understanding and I don’t remember having to pull this wheel out with any pressure.

Thanks. I appreciate your input.


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[AdamC]

Hi AdamC,   Reffering to the mainplate pic you prodided , pic No 1

Check the center tube. Pic 1 shows it sticking put.

Provide if you will, a pic from the other side of the mainplate ,showing the center tube.

Regards joe

Thanks again for your help with this movement Joe. I am adding a photo of the bottom plate that I took during disassembly. Ignore my annotated note.

Thanks,

Adam

 

 

 

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[Nucejoe]

Close up of the center tube .

Looks to me the center tube is not fully inserted in place.

Go back to pic one, check if the C tube is fully inserted in. Push on it with the falt part of ,end part of your tweezers , to the C tube in place, no excessive force required.

Regards joe.

[Nucejoe]

C tube should be fully inserted and level flat with the plate from inside.

[AdamC]

C tube should be fully inserted and level flat with the plate from inside.

I think you could well be right Joe. I’ll try that tonight and let you know how I get on.

Thanks again, really appreciate it.
Adam


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[clockboy]

Providing all the wheels are in the correct sequence then it must be the centre tube. However what would worry me is how it has moved. Was the watch in a running condition before the service. 

[Nucejoe]

Hi Adam, 

Pushed back in place,  grab the tube with tweezers slightly shake the tube sideways to get a feel of how firmly it holds in place, should not move back out of the mainplate easy. 

You wouldn,t want the tube s!ide back out again by a shock... etc.... when the watch is serviced and on wrist.

Clockboy's question  how has it moved? Was the watch runing before service.

Awares us of this most important point.

 

Regards joe.

[Nucejoe]

3 hours ago, clockboy said:

Providing all the wheels are in the correct sequence then it must be the centre tube. However what would worry me is how it has moved. Was the watch in a running condition before the service. 

Thank you Sir. Got it.

[Nucejoe]

Just now, Nucejoe said:

Thank you Sir. Got it.

Or have I got all the points in your question?

[nickelsilver]

6 hours ago, AdamC said:

I noticed during disassembly that the canon pinion/wheel combination came off with zero pressure and was surprised as I normally use my removal tool for this making me wonder if the 4th wheel needed to snap in from the top plate? However, as you say, they should be zero force from my understanding and I don’t remember having to pull this wheel out with any pressure.

 

Nucejoe is correct the tube should absolutely be flush with the mainplate from the movement side.

The canon pinion with driving wheel should be totally free on the center tube. The friction is between the two parts, which are snapped together. No need to disassemble, just make sure you put some heavy oil or grease at their connection.

[AdamC]

What would worry me is how it has moved. Was the watch in a running condition before the service. 

Thanks for your interest Clockboy. In answer to your question, my stepfather, whose watch it is, handed it to me in non-working condition. I discovered a retaining screw was missing from the autowinder mechanism and later found it on the main plate, which most likely stopped it. It hadn’t been serviced in years. I’ve found nothing significant (until now) that would prevent it from working.

One thought is that the centre tube got moved when I put the parts through the ultrasonic cleaner.

Thanks,
Adam



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[AdamC]

Well, what can I say. "Thank you, thank you, thank you!". Nucejoe, you hit the nail on the head, but thanks to all who confirmed your thoughts too. It was indeed the centre tube, which must have worked its way loose in the ultrasonic cleaner. I put some moderate pressure on the tube with the flat of my tweezers and the tube snapped down flush into place on the plate. I did check for side movement, but none detected.

Immediately afterwards, I reassembled the train wheels and within a couple of minutes, I had the bridge secured and the wheels spinning nice and freely.

 

Thanks again folks. I'm still learning a year into this wonderful hobby, and this has got to be the most ambitious project I've taken on.

[Nucejoe]

Hi Adam,  I am happy to have been of any help. 

Your clear to understand description( evevn to a non native English spaeker I am) plus pictures, makes working with you fruitful, aren,t we all learning?

Awaiting a pic of the watch on your wrist working perfectly.So This guy   can play his tune.

Regards joe

 

[AdamC]

Well guys, the Sanford watch is finally reassembled, on my wrist, and ticking away at a fast rate of knots being a Hi-Beat ETA 2832 movement. Timed on my timegrapher, it’s gaining about 1 minute per day but I’m going to wear it for a day and see how it performs before I think about adjusting it.

Thanks again for your help, which has made the whole repair process a pleasure for this movement; definitely the most ambitious project I’ve taken on. It’s going to make my 82 year old stepfather a very happy man to be reunited with the watch he’s loved since 1977!



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