Omega Cal 552 Help

[canthus]

Just about to service my old Omega Seamaster Automatic in a 165.003 case (15ct rolled gold with s/st back) with Cal 552 movement but need some help before I go further. 

Serviced (very badly) about 15 years ago (but not used much since except for last 2 years or so) and I remember sending it back as movement was loose in the case!! Just opened it up to find gouge marks in it which appear to have been caused by screw or something jamming under rotor and only 1 dial screw fitted ( I have a new one ready)!!!  However it still runs well but is obviously ready for a service.

What I would like to know is;-

1. Was there a dial washer fitted to this cal/case combination (none currently present) ?

2. I do not have any Kluber P125 grease for the mainspring barrel as per Omega current spec (expensive to buy for just one watch!) but do have Moebius 8217 grease. Can I use this instead?

 

Any help/advice appreciated.

 

[anilv]

Dear Canthus,

 

The dial washer's purpose in life is to ensure that it meshes with the driving wheel correctly. The reason a dial washer is used is to reduce thickness of the overall movement.

 

On some watches where a plate is used to retain the date driving stuff, this plate is used to ensure that the hour wheel is held in place correctly... hence no dial washer. Recent Seikos are a good example of this.

 

Generally if theres nothing holding the hour wheel in place then a dial washer is required.

 

Note a dial washer is fitted convex side down (against the hour wheel).

 

HTH

Anil

[anilv]

...ooops

 

Moebius 8217 would be fine for the barrels.

 

Anil

[canthus]

Anil,  Thanks for help. Not got washer size reqd so ordered some in.  Will use 8217 on barrel wall.  Should I also put a smear of oil on the spring whilst coiling it up, or a drop on the coils after fitting?  I have Moebius HP1300(9104) and 9020.

[anilv]

Put three drops on the barrel 'floor' and once the spring is in,  three drops on top. Dont forget to oil the arbour spindles.

 

Make sure you clean the spring and don't touch it with your hands, this is important.

 

Anil

[rogart63]

Old post but i am about to service a 552 movement  And wondering where to find a manual. Is is Cousinsuk? 

[JohnR725]

It looks like the 552 similar to quite a few watches such as the 551 Which I have a link to a PDF data sheet below When I have the parts list for the 550 which appears to be the base caliber and the 552 attached.

 

 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Omega_552.

 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Omega_551

 

 

http://watchguy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Omega-551.pdf

Omega 552_complet_2035.pdf

Omega 363_550_complet_2028.pdf

[canthus]

Cal 552 is straightforward and should be no problem if you have serviced other watches.  There are 2 areas which require noting. 

 

1. The centre second spring should apply some friction on the centre second pinion and the contact point should not be lubricated.  When the gear train has been assembled fit the centre second pinion and spring. Turn the barrel a tad until the gear train rotates, when it stops gently lift the centre second pinion spring, and the gear train should turn a small amount (1/2 turn of the 4th (?) wheel). Adjust by careful bending if too tight or too free.

 

2. The other is the reversing gear, very difficult to work with as very small parts. Following advice on this forum I just soaked it in lighter fuel for 15 mins, then flushed out with lighter fuel and then thoroughly dried with a blower.  You can then squeeze the edges of the wheels together opposite to where the small internal gears are and using a very fine oiler, introduce a small drop of oil to each internal gear.  This seems to be an effective alternative if the special tool is not available.  Mine has worked fine since doing this.

 

For lubes I used Moebius 941 and epilame for pallet jewels, 9010 (with epilame for pallet teeth and balance jewels), 9020, HP1300 and Grease 9501 in addition to mainspring lube above.

 

There are many pics on the internet of this movement.

 

This link have good supply of used and NOS parts for cal552 and are base in Sweden.

http://urdelar.se/omega?page=1

[rogart63]

Fantastic info from you guys. I have no Moebius 941 i think . I will order some things from cousinsuk so will ad it to the list . The reversing wheel i haven't come to yet . But there is a very small little wheel between the two ratchet wheels . 

[rogart63]

Would 9415 work instead of 941 for the pallet jewels?  And D5 for the mainspring? That is what i usually have? 

[bobm12]

Hi Roger, 9415 is fine to substitute 945 in all cases. Also in low bit movements, 9010 could be used instead of 945 in a pinch...I would still try not to. D5 is for the barrel arbor not the main spring...or at least that's what I understand.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

PS. You can "clean" the mainspring with a piece of paper and a few drops of 8217 or something similar. Don't touch anything, specially the mainspring with your bare fingers.

[JohnR725]

Would 9415 work instead of 941 for the pallet jewels?  And D5 for the mainspring? That is what i usually have? 

The original specifications was 941 or slow moving escapement's and 9415 for fast. Now they've changed either for both.

 

But if you're really obsessed there's some issues with using 9415. I was at a lecture once it was pointed out you can actually lose amplitude using 9415. Omega in their documentation for lubrication has a very elaborate procedure for using this. Simplistically are going ultra minimalistic. The problem is 9415 is a grease with some very interesting properties. With high-frequency escapement's is a greater chance of the lubrication migrating where it's not supposed to be so as a grease it stays put. Then on impact it becomes extremely slippery fluid. But if you look at the side view of a modern escape wheel it's not flat the teeth are slightly rounded and the whole thing is wedge-shaped to minimize friction. If you have a lot of grease on the end of the stone impact super slippery everything else sticky. Omega has three different procedures depending upon other conditions related to the escape wheel. So just be careful not to get super enthusiastic with your 9415 probably only shows up if you using a tech sheets and trying to please some very exacting specifications because otherwise I haven't seen any other references to this. Or basically other people just haven't noticed because are not trying to meet very exacting specifications.

 

Surface treating or (epilame) Interesting substance variety of prices depending upon which manufacturer you buy from. Then some very elaborate procedures for applying it I'll give you a link below it's reasonably simple you can Google the stuff see the what happens if you do not stories. Specifically it's a very volatile substance that when it evaporates it cools the metal parts down depending upon environmental conditions you get condensation and eventually rust. So you have to make sure it's dry with warm air. Then it's only applied to the pallet stones keep it off the rest of the fork.

 

http://watchmakingblog.com/2011/07/29/one-hazard-of-epilame/

 

Then for the reverse your wheels they can definitely be an issue. I once worked in a shop that was a authorized Omega service agents I was looking forward to the nifty tools for disassembling these. Except he didn't have any? So he ran them through the ultrasonic then something called dual lube which may not even exist anymore. I wouldn't run them through ultrasonic cleaning unless you grasp exactly how there supposed to be lubricated. If you run them dry or don't get lubrication where you're supposed to they will fail really fast and make a interesting grinding sound. Some watch companies on the modern wheels recommend no cleaning at all and of course replacement. Then for modern reversers there is a special lubrication and an alternative if you don't have that. I've attached images explaining how that works.

 

[rodabod]

Hi,

A couple of questions regarding the cal 552 (and 500 series in general):

Do people generally recommend opening the reverser wheel rather than the dip solution suggested in the post above? If so, how do you open it? I was considering using a pin vice and some sturdy tweezers. 

Secondly, how much is too much side-shake on the rotor? I can see evidence of the rotor rubbing against other parts of the movement, but I believe this has likely happened during shocks. I've photographed the steel arbor for the rotor which shows wear, but I presume most wear will be on the brass bush of the rotor itself. 

Underside of rotor bush/pinion:

 

Rotor arbor:

Edited December 15, 2016 by rodabod

[Geo]

I wouldn't advise opening it unless you have the correct tool for the job.  It is a very delicate piece that is beautifully engineered and would be easy to damage as the parts are screwed together tightly.  The first one I worked on was cleaned in my ultrasonic bath still assembled.  I then managed to carefully get 9010 oil into the internal gears with a very fine oiler.  Far safer to fo this than risk damaging an irreplaceable part without the correct tools.  That watch has now been running everyday for the last couple of years and keeps well with chronometer specification.  

Regarding the rotor, I can't give you the answer you want, but if it is clear of the movement and running smoothly I would leave it.

[canthus]

I agree with Geo, if you don't have the tool then our methods work fine.  Mine has now been running for over 2 years since serviced and still keeps 4-5sec/day (not tried to better this as more likely to make worse!!) and auto-winds with no problems.  I wear approx 14 hrs/day and it is static dial up for the other 10hrs.  Even had periods of up to 2 weeks when not used and after a short manual wind all is fine again.  The rotor bearing pivot/plate is available and not too expensive. Don't know about the bearing in the rotor itself if that's worn, whether it can be replaced or if a complete rotor will be required (likely to be quite expensive).

Edited December 15, 2016 by canthus
typo

[JohnR725]

So to open up your reverser wheels is relatively easy providing you have the right tools..So these are not necessarily for the 520 didn't see the 520 manual so I just grabbed one of the other ones to give you an idea what the tools would have looked like if there were available.

[rodabod]

Thanks for all the advice.

I'm going to try some Etalube first and see how well that works....