Jump to content

Rolex 2030 with issues


CKelly

Recommended Posts

Hi,

   Its been a while since I posted anything here but I have ran into a strange issue that I'm trying to trouble shoot on a Rolex 2030. I have cleaned, oiled movement, replaced the cannon pinion and minute pinion (watch hands were stopping at date change) Watch now runs and continues past date change but beat error is all over the place as is time error. I've taken it apart again and checked everything and put it back together with same result. The only thing I can see is the minute pinion has a slight wobble. When you set the hands you can see them shift side to side. especially if you change from clockwise to counter clockwise. If you take the hands off you can wobble the minute pinion slightly with tweezers. Tension spring is positioned properly. There does seem to be some damage to the plate under the cannon pinion as if it were removed at some time earlier with hand levers or something. I'm wondering what the solution here is?  Bushing? Replace plate (expensive)? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Charles K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,    A close up pic of what seems to be a damage to the plate.

I gather you don,t know if the beat error existed before you start work on the movement? How about timegrapher beat error, with suspected wheels on and  removed?

Regards joe

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

  I should have mentioned that I have reviewed Marks video on the 2030 just to see if I missed anything. Another thing I forgot is that I think at one point the watch suffered water damage. I see no rust however the dial is badly discolored. I did try to get a picture but area is small and all I can see is a blurry mess. Another thing I should mention is that when I replaced the cannon pinion is that I also replaced the minute pinion as they came as a set.   

    Idea about getting readings without pinion and with pinion is a very good one and I was going to do that. I have to admit now that I was recleaning and going through movement a second time to see if I missed anything and the balance cock cap jewel ran away. I was recleaning and oiling and it jumped when my wife yelled about a bear getting into her bird feeders.  A new jewel should be here Saturday. 

   As to the plate it just seem as if the hole is just a bit too big.  It reminds me of a grandfather clock I worked on a few months ago where the center shaft pivot was badly worn to the point the clock would stop. I made a video of that to show the clocks owner before I replaced its bushing. The degree of movement in the clocks pivot is about equal to the movement on the watch movement.

Charles K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,   Center shaft's excessive side shake is or the fault, my previous suggestion,  readings with and without the canon pinion still holds valid though.

Though water damage greately devalues the piece , I doublt it be the source of beat error, as you put it all over the place.

Jewel cabs fly to join satelites in the orbit, we all have experienced the frustration. How about a transparent  box on your bench to hold the piece in, as you work on the piece, sort of controlled space, made out of plexiglass or some large transparent domes I have seen Americans use to keep them dounuts under and out of insects reach, sometimes large enough for camping.

Regards joe

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Joe. I did actually check beat error with and without cannon pinion and it was still crazy- might go from 0.3 to 9.9 with making no adjustments. Was going to try and check without minute pinion next before jewel jumped. Don't know how that will be changed without the additional drag from that part. I guess in theory that beat error should level out if that is the issue.  I have started checking other possible strange issues while waiting for the cap jewel. Just checked mainspring for possible bent teeth didn't find anything but checked any way. The drive train has a nice smooth and free movement without the mainspring barrel and minute pinion installed. When I try with minute pinion the movement seems to be a touch slower. I assumed that was because of the extra possible drag from the tension spring.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,  I just don,t have a reasonable idea of the fault, other than center shaft's side play ,no other warning light blinks. 

A top view close up  helps, I am not sure if I am visualizing the correct diagram, may have mixed up pics in mind. 

When the cab arrives and you produce more data, more advise will come in to help. 

I,ll keep both eyes open for this :startle:

Regards joe

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

   The cap jewel arrived this afternoon a day early. Just got through installing that and then I assembled the movement without the minute pinion and second pinion. Left the second pinion off because I didn't want to chance damaging it.  I was then able to set beat to 0.1 fairly quickly and watch held that with no change. Guess that narrows the issue down to the wobble.

    Now what can be done without spending a fortune? Thought about a bushing but the minute pinion is about .3mm outer diameter and I checked the plate with caliper and there is only about less than 1.2mm distance from the hole to the edge of the plate. Have found some plates but the cheapest I found is about $250. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Charles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, closing the hole with  impact and broaching it back to size, is the only approach I can think of.

I am not surs if there is a tool for closing the hole other than regulare staking set.

I suggest posting a new thread on the subject , to see if there exist a special tool for closing the hole.

Before I started service/ repair work on my collection, a repairman who used to fix my watches had a damaged staking set which he said his apprentice had damaged while trying to close a hole. So getting advice is the best decision.

Regards joe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi clockboy,

   Yes I'm hoping to find a better solution. The hole in question is the center hole that the minute pinion comes through. There is no bushing or jewel. Watch will run fine without minute pinion but goes wild with it in timekeeping, beat error and amplitude. Minute pinion is new rolex part. This particular hole has no jewel or bushing. I have tried closing holes in the past but not on a rolex and I agree it is not a real good solution. I did work on a Rolex 1570 which had this problem several years ago but in this case Rolex had a bushing that could be used, in fact I still have one of those bushings as I had to buy two to get the one I needed. Can't remember what that part # is. One the 1570 the wobble was so bad that when the watch was turned over the center wheel would tilt far enough that it would touch the hairspring and stop the watch.

    Anyway I have looked for a small od. bushing but haven't found one small enough yet.  Thought about trying to turn one down but I'm not that good on a lathe. Have some that are 1.5 mm od but they are too big for the plate- would cut through the edge. Will try to get a picture again in a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have seen this repair done by fitting a hole jewel. It might be worth seeing if this is an option. It will depend on if the plate is thick enough to take a jewel. If it is you can broach out a hole to the exact friction fit size and just fit the jewel. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, clockboy said:

I have seen this repair done by fitting a hole jewel. It might be worth seeing if this is an option. It will depend on if the plate is thick enough to take a jewel. If it is you can broach out a hole to the exact friction fit size and just fit the jewel. 

Hello Sir,  even if Rolex didn,t use a jewel I would if there is space, Ckelly is talking of inadequate space and no close up pic yet successfully produced., Ckelly appears experienced enough but the problem evidently is reàl odd. Perhaps a bush can  be turned special for this case, Providing it dosn,t  turn out too thin to survive long. Glad you joined in seriously.

Regards joe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all,

   Here are the pictures. One just shows the hole and scratch marks on one side. (I'm assuming damage made by someone removing canon pinion without using pullers). Took this picture without the minute pinion installed as that where I left off after testing beat error yesterday. In the other picture I've placed the extra bushing from the 1570 repair over the hole to show how much space I'm dealing with. The od of that bushing is 1.2mm- about. I was wondering if anyone had ever used a jewel for such a repair. (thanks clockboy) I have a variety of center jewel I got from timesavers earlier and I'm hoping one might fit. I do have the seitz jeweling tool. I think if I can find a jewel with an od of about 1mm and id of about .32mm that it might work.

DSCN3832.JPG

DSCN3834.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do know movement needs recleaned. I've had it apart several times since cleaning and handled it a lot trying to find what I may have missed. Checked parts under microscope and all I can come up with is the wobbling minute pinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

  Remeasured minute pinion and I must have got the wrong reading before, sometimes my digital calipers act up. New measurement is ,5 mm. I have found a center jewel at Otto Frei at .52 id and 1.20 outer. Still looking through the bunch I have to see if one of them will work. 1.2 will still be real close to the edge of the plate but I think it will work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

I got bunch of spare jewels which I bought dirt cheap, but no means of measuring ID. 

I thoght of finding a 1.2 mm center shaft to meaure jewels on, go no go , be happy to mail the gift to you.  

Opps .32 mm and received the email telling .5 mm id. Wouldn,t that be tok thin?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had measured minute pinion wrong. Jewel should have an id of about.52 (since pinion is .5) and no more than an od of 1.2mm.  I bought 100 earlier from timesavers and am trying to find one in that batch but so far no luck. Also started to look through junk movements to see if I can find something there.  Getting a bit crazy trying to think of solutions. Have thought of a bushing with a smaller id so that I could mount it onto a shaft and then chuck it up so I could basically sand it down.  Then I could adjust id.

   Had to stop thinking about it for a bit. Right now had to move on to shaping a crystal for a watch with an oval dial. This is the first time I've actually had to shape a mineral crystal but thought it would take my mind off the rolex for a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, Lets go for jeweling first, the problem is finding the right size and plate thickness, as clockboy rightly mentioned.

Refer to the toping posted by AdamC " question eta 2832" , to see if you like my approach for stem pivot reduction which can work for bush OD reduction. I think you can immediately figure out the rest.you should, however select smaller id for braoching following bush fitting.

Regards joe

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi, Lets go for jeweling first, the problem is finding the right size and plate thickness, as clockboy rightly mentioned.

Refer to the toping posted by AdamC " question eta 2832" , to see if you like my approach for stem pivot reduction which can work for bush OD reduction. I think you can immediately figure out the rest.you should, however select smaller id for braoching following bush fitting.

Regards joe

 

Correction , posting by AdamC titled ,Omega stem shaft pivot hole problem. You lathe with your tweezers. Candidate me for no- bill prize.  Ha ha.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Joe,

   I really like the sandpaper and tweezers idea. I have already ordered 20 small bushings that hopefully will be here tomorrow. Bushings are 1.5mm od and will have to be reduced. What I will do is reduce od. Then I will have to reduce the thickness- will mount it in a scrap plate to hold it while I thin it down. Then I'll mount it in the rolex plate and increase the id of the bushing. A lot of work but it should work.

   By the way I haven't heard of a no prize since the Marvel comics of the '60s with Stan Lee.

Thanks,

Charles K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No bill- prize,  is useful when one has spent all his money on buying watch parts and ain,t got money left to pay utility bills. 

So if you like my sandpaper technology, you should keep switching to finer grain  sandpaper as you get to final stages of OD reduction sort of fine finish and if you mount the motor or power dril on bench or somehow in fix postion you gain more control over the operation, you can even slightly round one edge of the bush for easier insertion which I think should be inserted in place from inside of the plate. Helps to wrap electric tape around the pin holder where dril vice is to grip the pin holder.

I wounder if sears row bucks would buy my know how.   

  :geek:  Learn to be happy 

Regards joe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...