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IBM16220

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Everything posted by IBM16220

  1. Thanks for the input. The second hand pinion was the reason for this whole saga. I bought a new second wheel where the pinion is attached. I then decided after watching YouTube videos i was ready to replace it myself. For the dial i ended up buying a pre owned one that had the feet and just replaced the dial.
  2. I finally got it working as it "should" and back together. It ended up being two different things both me installing tiny pieces incorrectly and just a little out of sync. The first issue was the escape wheel/pallet fork that was misaligned and not installed properly which allowed the minute hand, hour hand, main spring barrel and 3 train wheels less the escape wheel to turn when trying to wind the watch and also when the stem was at position 3 for setting the time. Thanks to Poljot for pointing me in the direction of the pallet fork/escape wheel interaction. Once that was correc
  3. In thinking about it a little more, taking your guidance (nickelsilver) and re-watching the videos it seems I need to free up the cannon pinion (circled in red) that is installed over the arbor (circled in yellow and red) if that is supposed to slip on the arbor when the stem is in position 3 allowing the hands to move. Does that make sense and if so, any recommendations on freeing it up?
  4. Here are a couple pictures of the bridge and sprocket (minute pinion), circled in red, that I am referring to that could be jammed. I am concerned though that once I get access to it I wont be able to do anything to separate it from the cannon pinion as in the video a special tool was needed to pull the cannon pinion out of the watch. But from thinking about how you explained the mechanism works this is what is not allowing the cannon pinion from spinning freely when the stem is in position 3.
  5. Yeah, the prior service is what I believe got me into this situation as they broke the dial pins that keep it from turning and snapped the second wheel shaft off in the second hand. So I did some research and attempted the job myself. Yes, I could turn the hands before I took it apart. So before I took it apart the watch would wind with the stem in position 1 and the hands would turn with the stem in position 3 so it wasn't seized up before I started work on it. Then I took it apart, didn't let the main spring down, removed one of the train wheels and the spring unwound uncontrolled sp
  6. So the way I read this is the cannon pinion should spin freely when the stem is pulled as it's a light friction fit on the arbor attached to the gear below it. So when the watch is running it will spin with the gear that is driven by the movement and when the stem is pulled it should spin freely on the arbor while the whole train wheel mechanism stays locked by the pallet fork. The cannon pinion definitely does not spin freely when the stem is pulled to position 3. I tried to turn it with a pair of tweezers last night and it wouldn't budge. If I take the train wheel mechanism off again
  7. Using the pictures that you provided in the link above since I didn't have exactly the right pictures during my disassembly I'll try to explain it. In the picture of the front of the watch I circled the little gears that work together when the stem is pulled to position 3. They all line up to turn the minute sprocket (silver shaft in middle of watch). I am using the picture of the back of the watch to show that when the balance and pallet fork are removed and the stem is pulled to position 3 everything turns and nothing is binding up. But when I install the balance and pallet fork and
  8. After hours of troubleshooting front and back of the movement to figure out why the stem would not turn when pulled out to position 3 (the position to stop the movement and set the time) I have no idea. I see that the minute sprocket and the hour sprocket (the parts that the hands mount to when installed) are supposed to turn when the stem is pulled out to position 3. The stem mechanism (little sprockets that engage with minute sprocket) works but I'm not sure what is supposed to disengage the minute sprocket from the main spring barrel on the back side of the watch. Without that dise
  9. Good point. Luckily I have had them apart and back together without breaking any screws. Your recommendation on the pallet fork was very helpful and got me to the right spot even though it wasn't the fork. Thank you. Now I just need to figure out what is binding up keeping the stem/crown from turning when trying to set the time.
  10. Thanks for getting back to me. Last night in my attempt at finding why the watch wasn't working I took the date wheel off and then the front plate. I thought I had it back together correctly but there could easily be something that is out of alignment in there. By just not right I mean when I go to turn the stem in position 3 to try to set the time the stem doesn't turn but I can see the minute and hour wheels on the back side trying to move. So..."it's close but just not right". I have been trying to figure out all that is supposed to move when the stem is pulled to position 3 to fin
  11. LOL. Yes, it came too late. I am all in on this one. From the post above. I got the movement working again as it was the sprocket that the pallet fork drives that was misaligned. Now that that has been corrected the watch can be wound and it runs. The new problem is when the stem is pulled to position 3, I can't turn it to move the hands for setting the time. Since I recorded the movement in slo-mo when the watch was running and see all wheels and main spring barrel moving it doesn't seem to be jammed. But when I try to turn the stem in position 3 something is just not quite right.
  12. Despite the "F screws" I was able to check the pallet fork and it was in good shape. it ended up being the sprocket that the pallet fork drives which works with the second wheel that was not in position. I am not able to wind the watch and it runs. The problem now is that when the stem is pulled out to position 3 to set the time the crown will not spin. It is jammed up somewhere which is different than before as it spun freely. Any thoughts on this one?
  13. I also used my phone to take a slow mo video and can see that all wheels and the main spring barrel are all turning so nothing is jammed.
  14. Thank you for this drawing. I ended up finding the pallet fork using Mark's video's online and it was in place and not broken. While doing this though, I did find that the sprocket that it drives which then in turn drives the second wheel was off center and wasn't working. Correcting this corrected the watch not being able to be wound. So now it runs. However, now I have a different issue. In position 1 the watch winds and runs. In position 3, unlike prior issue where the hands and main spring barrel turned, now the stem wont turn at all. When I put a little pressure on it to turn
  15. Yuck. Not pretty. There are no signs of anything like that in this watch. Every part that I took out has been nice and clean. The picture honestly didn't do the watch justice. Yes, there was some excess grease on the clutch wheels but everything else, from a new watch guy, looks ok.
  16. Thank you for the additional documentation. Yes, there were 3 parts to the video taking through disassembly and reassembly which were very useful and without them I would have never attempted the repairs. Thank you for the advice on photos. I have done that along the way and it has served useful. Agree, it is a Rolex, but once you get past that, it just like any other mechanical device; just much smaller and finer parts than I have ever worked with before.
  17. I agree. My grandpa wore this watch 24/7 no matter what. You can see in the first pic the hands have pitting and staining. The original dial, pic below, in addition to having the posts broken off, had serious staining and signs of moisture. The watch was serviced in 2017 by a local jewelry shop (I think they broke the dial and second wheel stem) and was running with great accuracy (-2 seconds per day). I am trying to avoid the $400 dollar service fee again and started working on it and then continued to get deeper the more comfortable I got. Besides the fact that it's broken right now, i
  18. Yes, all wheels turn when I try to wind the watch and all wheels turn when in hack to change the time. I thought the same thing, that I had a broken main spring, so I did remove the barrel, opened it and the spring is attached to the arbor. To check if the spring was broken somewhere, I closed it back up and installed the screw that holds the clutch wheel to the barrel and used a screw driver to wind the spring in my hand. It would wind and then it would unwind as expected (I've never done it before so have nothing to compare to but seemed ok) So it sounds like pallet fork should be my
  19. In all of my tear down I do not remember removing the pallet fork or even seeing it. I google'd it to find an image and definitely didn't remove it but that doesn't mean it wasn't dislodged or broken when the watch unwound and the hand slammed the index. It seems like whatever is supposed to "clamp" either the main spring barrel from spinning when in winding position or clamp or disengage the winding rotor when in hack position isn't working properly. Does the pallet fork play a part in these mechanisms?
  20. No, it looks like that in the pic but that was just some black grease like substance that was on the top of the wheel when i opened it. Currently that is cleaned off. Ratchet wheel works great and the are no broken teeth.
  21. Thank you for the guidance, Joe. I reposted with pics in the watch repair section. I have been spending hours on the general Rolex forum learning everything i can about my watch and the brand/vintage watches in general. Now that I’m in working on my own watch I’ll be spending significant time here too.
  22. Hi all. I recently got an IBM 25 year service award Rolex handed down to me from my grandpa. It is a 1989 Datejust 16220 with 3135 movement. When i got it the dial was spinning in the case when i would wear it and the second hand was off. Using YouTube videos, I got through replacing the dial with no issues. However when it came to the second hand, come to find out part of the second wheel stem was broken off in the hand. So i ordered a new second wheel and used Marks videos on YouTube to attempt that job. That’s how i got here. But i didn’t take my time and didn’t let the main sprin
  23. Hi everyone. I’m 35 and new to watch repair. I am an engineer and have done plenty of work on cars. I am enjoying working on the watch so far but feel i got in over my head on my first watch i have ever worked on. I recently got an IBM 25 year service award Rolex handed down to me from my grandpa. It is a 1989 Datejust 16220. When i got it the dial was spinning in the case. Using YouTube videos I got through replacing that with no issues. However the second hand was not installed but i had it and come to find out the second wheel stem was broken In the hand. So i ordered a new second wheel an
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