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sstakoff

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  1. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from IOB in Valjoux 72c set hands to zero   
    I agree that this is likely caused by the hands not being pressed on firmly enough. And to do that you certainly need to support the pivots when installing the hands. If you are working on the hands, presumably the watch is out of the case. The "underside" is actually the back of the watch - opposite the dial. You need to place the pivot on something like a stake of appropriate size, a movement-specific holder for this very purpose, or a platform such as a Bergeon 5409 which is designed to support the pivot.
    It is also possible that there is something wrong with the reset hammers and/or hearts. They need to be very smooth and properly adjusted. There is also an eccentric stud that is used to adjust the reset. See images attached as they may help!

  2. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from jdrichard in What tool for measuring jewel holes ?   
    I have a jewel hole gauge and a pivot gauge similar to these:

     

    The problem is that these are VERY expensive tools. You can also measure the pivot using a micrometer. You will need a jewel with a hole slightly larger than the pivot. Of course you also need to know the measurement of the outside diameter of the jewel in order to make sure it can be fit into the plate or chaton. You may need to ream the hole to a larger size. You will need a jeweling set for reaming and pushing in the new jewel. Are you certain that the jewel is friction fit??
  3. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from meanoldmanning in What tool for measuring jewel holes ?   
    I have a jewel hole gauge and a pivot gauge similar to these:

     

    The problem is that these are VERY expensive tools. You can also measure the pivot using a micrometer. You will need a jewel with a hole slightly larger than the pivot. Of course you also need to know the measurement of the outside diameter of the jewel in order to make sure it can be fit into the plate or chaton. You may need to ream the hole to a larger size. You will need a jeweling set for reaming and pushing in the new jewel. Are you certain that the jewel is friction fit??
  4. Haha
    sstakoff got a reaction from Nucejoe in ETA 2893-1 Service Walkthrough - Part 1 - Disassembly   
    Service Walk Through – ETA 2893-1 / Hamilton Khaki: Part 1 - Disassembly
     
    This is part 1 of my service of a Hamilton Khaki – dual time zone automatic based on the ETA 2893-1 movement. I purchased the watch on eBay and it runs for a short time then stops. Looks like it could use a good cleaning.
    Note that the part numbers in the images and text are consistent with those found in the ETA technical document for this movement. Disassembly of this movement is quite straightforward. The only "special" tool you need would be an oscillating weight bolt tool - and you only need this if you intend to remove the ball bearing assembly from the oscillating weight, which really isn't required. In this tear down I do use the tool - only because I recently acquired it and wanted to see how it worked
    Off we go....
     

    The dial shows evidence of some sloppy workmanship in the watch's past – several scratches from prior hand removal.
     

    Here you see the back of the 2893-1 with its automatic rotor - nicely signed Hamilton.
     

    Preparing to remove the hands – with a safety sheet in place.
     

    After removing the dial, remove the dial support ring. This ring keeps the dial the proper distance from the second timezone disc. Without it, the disc will rub against the dial.
     

    Remove the second timezone disc from the center. This is a bit tricky as there’s no obvious place to grip it. I used two very small screwdrivers on each side to lift the indicator straight up. Be careful not to scratch it!

    Disc removed.  Note the following parts: Hour Wheel (42); Hour Indicator Driving Wheel (43);  Corrector Setting Wheel (44); Additional Indicator Maintaining Plate (41)
     

     
    Pop off the dial washer – note that you cannot simply lift the hour wheel (42) off at this point. It is held in place by the hour indicator driving wheel (43).
     

    I remove the hour indicator driving wheel (43) followed by the corrector setting wheel (44).

     
    The hour wheel (42) is now simply lifted off, followed by the additional indicator maintaining plate (41).
     

    Next components to remove are the Date Indicator Maintaining Plate (40) and the Minute Train Bridge (35).


     
    We move on to remove the Intermediate Date Wheel (39). The Date Jumper (38) has also been exposed when we removed the maintaining plate, so we remove it. Finally, we remove the Date Indicator (37) and the Date Indicator Driving Wheel (36).



    Now on to some of the motion and keyless work. We remove the Minute Wheel (34),  Cannon Pinion with Driving Wheel (33),  Double Corrector (32) and Date Corrector Intermediate Setting Wheel (31).




     
     
    Before dealing with the rest of the keyless work, we flip the movement over and remove the automatic work. After removing the 3 blue screws we lift the entire unit up gently by the Oscillating Weight (28).


     
    With the automatic work out of the way – I notice that the Stop Lever (Hack) is missing! Will try and source one.
     

    Back to the automatic work. Removing these 3 screws will allow the oscillating weight to come off the Automatic Framework (21) and its components.



     
    Using the appropriate Bolt tool (pictured with the red handle) – I remove the Oscillating Weight Bolt (28-3) and free the Ball Bearing (28-2) from the Oscillating Weight (28-1). There was no compelling reason to disassemble this portion of the movement.
     

    With the Oscillating Weight out of the way, remove the Auxiliary Reverser (27).


    Flip the unit over once again and remove the screw and Automatic Device Lower Bridge (26).
     

    Remove the Reverser (25), Reverser Wheel (24), Reduction Wheel (23) and Intermediate Reduction Wheel (22).


    A view of the underside of these components
     

    Remove the single screw and gently lift off the Balance Assembly (20) with the Balance Complete (19).


    Carefully let the power down by releasing the Click (12-6) and slowly letting the crown wind down.
     

     Remove the Pallet Bridge (18) and Pallets (17).
     

    Remove the Train Wheel Bridge (16).


    Remove the Fourth Wheel (15), Third Wheel (14) and Escape Wheel (13).


     
    Remove the 3 screws and the Barrel Bridge (12)


     
    Flip the bridge over and lift off the Ratchet Wheel Driving Wheel (12-2)
     

    Remove the screw and the Click Plate (12-7), followed by the Click (12-6), Intermediate Ratchet Wheel (12-5), Intermediate Crown Wheel (12-4) and Crown Wheel (12-3). Note that the Intermediate Crown Wheel is under the Click Plate. When I removed the plate, the wheel was stuck to it due to some old oil.


     
    Here you can see the Intermediate Crown Wheel as it was stuck.
     

    This shows the proper placement of the wheels.
     

    Remove the Ratchet Wheel (11), the Mainspring Barrel (10) and Intermediate Wheel (9). Note the scrap of tissue that found its way onto the movement. I was so focused on taking pics that I didn’t notice J


     
    Pop the lid off the barrel.
     

    Remove the mainspring arbor
     

    And finally, remove the mainspring
     

    The movement side is now completely bare. Let’s flip it over and finish off the keyless work.
     
    Unscrew and remove the Setting Lever Jumper (8), Yoke (7) and the Setting Lever (6)



    Remove the Date Corrector Operating Lever (5), Winding Stem (4), Winding Pinion (3) and the Sliding Pinion (2)


    All stripped down
     

    Ready for the Ultrasonic!!!
     
     
    Hope you enjoyed this.
     
     
     
     
  5. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from VWatchie in cleaning the reverser wheel from an ETA 2824-2   
    After cleaning, the reversers should be treated with Lubeta V105. Immerse for a few moments, remove and blow with air to dry. It will leave a cloudy finish - this is normal.
  6. Thanks
    sstakoff got a reaction from Asmobrat in Video Disassembly of 7750 Clone   
    I recently decided to attempt to create a video of the disassembly of a Chinese clone of the ETA 7750. In actuality it is a variation of the 7750 platform. The movement does not have an hour recording feature, but instead has a continuous seconds hand in the 6 o'clock position. I also show where the clone design improves upon ETA - namely protection from breaking the date indicator driving wheel if the user attempts to set the date using the rapid corrector during the "forbidden" time range (10pm-2am??)
    Certainly not anything near the quality of Mark's videos, but I decided to give it a shot! Assembly video will be posted when available.
    Enjoy.
     
     
     
  7. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from RyMoeller in Video Disassembly of 7750 Clone   
    I recently decided to attempt to create a video of the disassembly of a Chinese clone of the ETA 7750. In actuality it is a variation of the 7750 platform. The movement does not have an hour recording feature, but instead has a continuous seconds hand in the 6 o'clock position. I also show where the clone design improves upon ETA - namely protection from breaking the date indicator driving wheel if the user attempts to set the date using the rapid corrector during the "forbidden" time range (10pm-2am??)
    Certainly not anything near the quality of Mark's videos, but I decided to give it a shot! Assembly video will be posted when available.
    Enjoy.
     
     
     
  8. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from VWatchie in Confused about Magnifiers/Microscopes   
    When I first started in this hobby I used standard Bausch & Lomb loupes of varying power (4,10,20). I never got used to the wire strap and just held the loupe in place with my eye. It was never an issue. Now, however, I wear eyeglasses so things have changed. I have tried all types of clip on loupes, but I just don't like them. These days I use a visor that I can easily flip up or down and I like them quite a lot. They cover my eyeglasses and have a good working distance so I can get comfortable. For really tough spots, like jewel inspection or even oiling, I find it easier to use my stereo microscope. It takes quite a bit of practice to get used to working through a scope, but once you get it down it's very handy! 
  9. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from Aqualand in Full Walkthrough - Bulova 21J - Citizen/Miyota 82S0 movement Disassembly   
    This is a more detailed version of my previous picture-only post for this watch.
    This Bulova 21-jewel automatic was given to me by a colleague for repair. It was running extremely fast – gaining about 15 minutes per hour. The movement is a Citizen/Miyota 82S0 skeleton.
    Looking through the clear back it was obvious that the balance amplitude was extremely low. First step was to simply demagnetize the watch to see if that did the trick as it sometimes does. No dice. I then removed the balance and pallets and put a small amount of wind onto the mainspring. The train spun up but as power wore off the escape wheel stopped, then started again several times. It was a very sloppy action. Nothing obvious in terms of loose or cracked jewels or excessive side or end shake that I could see. I decided to disassemble the movement and give it a full servicing. Here is how I disassembled the movement. Where I can I will list the Miyota part number for reference. You can find the parts list here: http://miyotamovement.com/parts_search.php?open=82S0
    Figure 1 shows the face of the watch after removing from the case. Note the exposed balance at the 7 o’clock position.
     
    Figure 1 – Face
    Figure 2 shows the clear case back prior to removing the movement.
     

    Figure 2 – Case back
    The first step in disassembly is to remove the Oscillating weight (119-A17. Note that the weight is secured to a bearing that is pressed into the main plate. Unlike many Swiss movements, the screw securing the weight rotates with the weight itself. I used a peg wood stick to prevent the weight from rotating while unscrewing the fastener. Figure 3 shows the weight prior to removal. Figure 4 shows the oscillating weight after removal.
     

    Figure 3 – Preparing to remove the oscillating weight

     
    Figure 4 – Oscillating weight
    Figure 5 shows the movement after removing the oscillating weight. The plastic movement holder (500-710) is also visible. This will be removed after dealing with the hands and dial. I also removed the winding stem (figure 6) by pressing in on the setting lever and gently pulling the stem. The location for pressing on the setting lever was clipped from the pic, but it’s a standard setup.
     
    Figure 5 – Plastic movement holder
     
     
    Figure 6 – Winding stem
    After removing the stem, the movement was removed from the case. The stem was then reinstalled to facilitate power let-down, etc. With the oscillating weight removed, it’s a simple matter to lay the movement down dial-up on a piece of pith wood and remove the hands (Figure 7). The dial retaining screws on the side of the movement are loosened (not removed) and the dial is gently coaxed away from the movement by inserting a thin screwdriver blade. Figure 8 shows the dial after removal.
      
    Figure 7 – Hands
     

    Figure 8 – The Dial
    The movement holder shown in figure 5 is now lifted off. It is shown in figure 9 next to the movement.
     
    Figure 9 – Movement holder ring
     
    Figure 10 shows the dial side of the movement.

     
    Figure 10 – Dial side
    The movement is then flipped dial down and loaded into a movement holder for disassembly. The balance (039-102) is removed along with the balance bridge (710-191) as shown in figure 11.

    Figure 11 – Preparing to remove balance
    The balance complete is shown after removal in figure 12.
     

    Figure 12 – The balance complete
    Important: Before removing the pallets I need to remove all the power from the mainspring. I do this in the standard way – by applying a bit of winding pressure on the crown while pulling the click (060-390 in figure 11) out of the way with a bit of peg wood and allowing the stem to unwind in a slow/controlled manner.
     

    Figure 13 – About to remove pallets
    With the power let down I can now remove the pallet bridge (708-066) and pallets. Figure 13 shows the bridge prior to removal. The pallets and bridge are shown in figure 14.
     

    Figure 14 – Pallets and pallet bridge
    I probably should have removed the motion work prior to starting in on the balance – not sure why I didn’t. Regardless, we need to flip the movement back so I can remove the motion work from the dial side. 
    The hour wheel is held in place by the hour wheel spring (176-109). Remove the 2 retaining screws and then lift off the spring. The spring is shown prior to removal in figure 15.
     
    Figure 15 – Hour wheel spring prior to removal
    Once the hour wheel spring is out of the way I can remove the dial washer (078-140), the hour wheel (075-124) and finally the cannon pinion (using your favorite cannon pinion removal tool). These parts are shown after removal in figure 16.
     

    Figure 16 – Hour wheel spring, hour wheel, dial washer and cannon pinion

    Figure 17 shows the movement after removal of the motion work. It’s now time to flip the movement back over and start in on the gear train.
     

    Figure 17 – After removing the motion work
    I remove the three screws securing the barrel and train wheel bridge (701-F52) and carefully remove it. Figure 18 shows the underside of the bridge. Note that the seconds pinion friction spring (903-690) was left in place. I didn’t see the point in removing it. You can also see the oscillating weight bearing that is press fit into the bridge. I didn’t mess with this either!
     

    Figure 18 – Barrel and train wheel bridge and seconds pinion friction spring
    Figure 19 shows the detail after removing the barrel and train wheel bridge. First, I remove the reduction gear (088-120) and reversing wheel (141-190). These components are part of the automatic winding mechanism.  They are shown in figures 20 and 21 after removal. I make note that the reversing wheel should be installed with the brass side up.

     
    Figure 19 – After removing barrel and train wheel bridge
     
     
    Figure 20 – Reduction gear
     

    Figure 21 – Reversing wheel

    Next, remove the third wheel (017-760), fourth wheel (023-940) and escape wheel (032-106).  These are shown in figure 22.


    Figure 22 – From left to right – escape wheel, fourth wheel and third wheel
    Next, I remove the ratchet wheel (059-560) and the barrel complete (001-870), which sits directly underneath the ratchet wheel. Th.ese components are shown in figures 23 and 24.
     

    Figure 23 – Ratchet wheel
     

    Figure 24 – Barrel complete
    Looking back at figure 19, you can see a spring, very similar to a dial washer. This part is called the ratchet sliding wheel spring (078-150). Simply lift it off (figure 25).
     
    Figure 25 – Ratchet sliding wheel spring
    With the spring out of the way I can now see the ratchet sliding wheel (087-250). I remove this part along with the crown wheel (058-360). Figure 26 shows these parts. Ah – finally a picture that shows the setting lever release button I mentioned earlier! Pressing here allows the stem to be removed. I will leave the stem in place for now. Will get to it shortly. Figures 27 and 28 show the parts just removed.
     
    Figure 26 – Crown wheel and ratchet sliding wheel 
     

    Figure 27 – Crown wheel
     

    Figure 28 – Ratchet sliding wheel
    Figure 29 shows the click (060-390) and click spring (903-700), the center wheel cock (711-074), center wheel (012-116) and center seconds pinion (025-670). Technically I believe the center wheel cock should be named the center wheel bridge since it’s secured by more than one screw, but I’ll leave that open for debate.  Tension on the center seconds pinion is provided by the friction spring we saw back in figure 18.
     

    Figure 29 – Click and spring, center wheel and cock, center seconds pinion
    Figure 30 depicts the click and click spring after removal.
     
    Figure 30 – Click and click spring
    Figure 31 shows the center wheel in place after the center wheel cock has been removed.
     

    Figure 31 – After removal of the center wheel cock
    Figure 32 depicts these parts after removal.
     

    Figure 32 – Center wheel cock, center wheel and center seconds pinion
    The train side of the movement is now fully stripped. This is shown nicely in figure 33. Time to flip it over and finish off the dial side.
     
    Figure 33 – Finished with the train side
    Figure 34 shows the current state of the dial side of the movement. To get started I remove the minute train cover (079-890). Figure 35 shows this component after removal.
     

    Figure 34 – Dial side 
     

    Figure 35 – Minute train cover
    I can now remove the keyless work. The components are shown in figure 36. The minute wheel (072-520) and setting wheel (076-430) are removed first. These components are shown in figure 37 along with the minute train cover.
     

    Figure 36 – Keyless work components
     
     
    Figure 37 – Minute and setting wheel
    Referring back to figure 36, the next components to remove are the yoke (071-510) and setting lever spring (077-690). The stem can now be removed and then the clutch (064-450) is free to remove. The setting lever (067-860) was not removed as it’s press button is staked (spread). No sense disturbing this. Figure 38 shows the yoke and setting lever spring after removal. The clutch is shown in figure 39.
     

    Figure 38 – Yoke (left) and setting lever spring
     
     
    Figure 39 - Clutch
    Finally, the main plate is fully stripped. The dial side is shown in figure 40.
     

    Figure 40 – Main plate – dial side
    We can now deal with the barrel assembly (figure 41).
     

    Figure 41 – Mainspring barrel complete
    Using the steel anvil for support, gently press down on the gear teeth to pop the barrel cover off (figure 42).
     

    Figure 42 – Barrel cover removed
    Carefully remove the barrel arbor (figure 43).
     

    Figure 43 – Barrel arbor
    Unwind the mainspring from the barrel (figure 44).
     

    Figure 44 – Barrel with spring removed

    This completes the disassembly of the movement. My next step will be to clean it in the ultrasonic. Will post the reassembly as a new thread.
     
      
  10. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from Endeavor in Full Walkthrough - Bulova 21J - Citizen/Miyota 82S0 movement Disassembly   
    This is a more detailed version of my previous picture-only post for this watch.
    This Bulova 21-jewel automatic was given to me by a colleague for repair. It was running extremely fast – gaining about 15 minutes per hour. The movement is a Citizen/Miyota 82S0 skeleton.
    Looking through the clear back it was obvious that the balance amplitude was extremely low. First step was to simply demagnetize the watch to see if that did the trick as it sometimes does. No dice. I then removed the balance and pallets and put a small amount of wind onto the mainspring. The train spun up but as power wore off the escape wheel stopped, then started again several times. It was a very sloppy action. Nothing obvious in terms of loose or cracked jewels or excessive side or end shake that I could see. I decided to disassemble the movement and give it a full servicing. Here is how I disassembled the movement. Where I can I will list the Miyota part number for reference. You can find the parts list here: http://miyotamovement.com/parts_search.php?open=82S0
    Figure 1 shows the face of the watch after removing from the case. Note the exposed balance at the 7 o’clock position.
     
    Figure 1 – Face
    Figure 2 shows the clear case back prior to removing the movement.
     

    Figure 2 – Case back
    The first step in disassembly is to remove the Oscillating weight (119-A17. Note that the weight is secured to a bearing that is pressed into the main plate. Unlike many Swiss movements, the screw securing the weight rotates with the weight itself. I used a peg wood stick to prevent the weight from rotating while unscrewing the fastener. Figure 3 shows the weight prior to removal. Figure 4 shows the oscillating weight after removal.
     

    Figure 3 – Preparing to remove the oscillating weight

     
    Figure 4 – Oscillating weight
    Figure 5 shows the movement after removing the oscillating weight. The plastic movement holder (500-710) is also visible. This will be removed after dealing with the hands and dial. I also removed the winding stem (figure 6) by pressing in on the setting lever and gently pulling the stem. The location for pressing on the setting lever was clipped from the pic, but it’s a standard setup.
     
    Figure 5 – Plastic movement holder
     
     
    Figure 6 – Winding stem
    After removing the stem, the movement was removed from the case. The stem was then reinstalled to facilitate power let-down, etc. With the oscillating weight removed, it’s a simple matter to lay the movement down dial-up on a piece of pith wood and remove the hands (Figure 7). The dial retaining screws on the side of the movement are loosened (not removed) and the dial is gently coaxed away from the movement by inserting a thin screwdriver blade. Figure 8 shows the dial after removal.
      
    Figure 7 – Hands
     

    Figure 8 – The Dial
    The movement holder shown in figure 5 is now lifted off. It is shown in figure 9 next to the movement.
     
    Figure 9 – Movement holder ring
     
    Figure 10 shows the dial side of the movement.

     
    Figure 10 – Dial side
    The movement is then flipped dial down and loaded into a movement holder for disassembly. The balance (039-102) is removed along with the balance bridge (710-191) as shown in figure 11.

    Figure 11 – Preparing to remove balance
    The balance complete is shown after removal in figure 12.
     

    Figure 12 – The balance complete
    Important: Before removing the pallets I need to remove all the power from the mainspring. I do this in the standard way – by applying a bit of winding pressure on the crown while pulling the click (060-390 in figure 11) out of the way with a bit of peg wood and allowing the stem to unwind in a slow/controlled manner.
     

    Figure 13 – About to remove pallets
    With the power let down I can now remove the pallet bridge (708-066) and pallets. Figure 13 shows the bridge prior to removal. The pallets and bridge are shown in figure 14.
     

    Figure 14 – Pallets and pallet bridge
    I probably should have removed the motion work prior to starting in on the balance – not sure why I didn’t. Regardless, we need to flip the movement back so I can remove the motion work from the dial side. 
    The hour wheel is held in place by the hour wheel spring (176-109). Remove the 2 retaining screws and then lift off the spring. The spring is shown prior to removal in figure 15.
     
    Figure 15 – Hour wheel spring prior to removal
    Once the hour wheel spring is out of the way I can remove the dial washer (078-140), the hour wheel (075-124) and finally the cannon pinion (using your favorite cannon pinion removal tool). These parts are shown after removal in figure 16.
     

    Figure 16 – Hour wheel spring, hour wheel, dial washer and cannon pinion

    Figure 17 shows the movement after removal of the motion work. It’s now time to flip the movement back over and start in on the gear train.
     

    Figure 17 – After removing the motion work
    I remove the three screws securing the barrel and train wheel bridge (701-F52) and carefully remove it. Figure 18 shows the underside of the bridge. Note that the seconds pinion friction spring (903-690) was left in place. I didn’t see the point in removing it. You can also see the oscillating weight bearing that is press fit into the bridge. I didn’t mess with this either!
     

    Figure 18 – Barrel and train wheel bridge and seconds pinion friction spring
    Figure 19 shows the detail after removing the barrel and train wheel bridge. First, I remove the reduction gear (088-120) and reversing wheel (141-190). These components are part of the automatic winding mechanism.  They are shown in figures 20 and 21 after removal. I make note that the reversing wheel should be installed with the brass side up.

     
    Figure 19 – After removing barrel and train wheel bridge
     
     
    Figure 20 – Reduction gear
     

    Figure 21 – Reversing wheel

    Next, remove the third wheel (017-760), fourth wheel (023-940) and escape wheel (032-106).  These are shown in figure 22.


    Figure 22 – From left to right – escape wheel, fourth wheel and third wheel
    Next, I remove the ratchet wheel (059-560) and the barrel complete (001-870), which sits directly underneath the ratchet wheel. Th.ese components are shown in figures 23 and 24.
     

    Figure 23 – Ratchet wheel
     

    Figure 24 – Barrel complete
    Looking back at figure 19, you can see a spring, very similar to a dial washer. This part is called the ratchet sliding wheel spring (078-150). Simply lift it off (figure 25).
     
    Figure 25 – Ratchet sliding wheel spring
    With the spring out of the way I can now see the ratchet sliding wheel (087-250). I remove this part along with the crown wheel (058-360). Figure 26 shows these parts. Ah – finally a picture that shows the setting lever release button I mentioned earlier! Pressing here allows the stem to be removed. I will leave the stem in place for now. Will get to it shortly. Figures 27 and 28 show the parts just removed.
     
    Figure 26 – Crown wheel and ratchet sliding wheel 
     

    Figure 27 – Crown wheel
     

    Figure 28 – Ratchet sliding wheel
    Figure 29 shows the click (060-390) and click spring (903-700), the center wheel cock (711-074), center wheel (012-116) and center seconds pinion (025-670). Technically I believe the center wheel cock should be named the center wheel bridge since it’s secured by more than one screw, but I’ll leave that open for debate.  Tension on the center seconds pinion is provided by the friction spring we saw back in figure 18.
     

    Figure 29 – Click and spring, center wheel and cock, center seconds pinion
    Figure 30 depicts the click and click spring after removal.
     
    Figure 30 – Click and click spring
    Figure 31 shows the center wheel in place after the center wheel cock has been removed.
     

    Figure 31 – After removal of the center wheel cock
    Figure 32 depicts these parts after removal.
     

    Figure 32 – Center wheel cock, center wheel and center seconds pinion
    The train side of the movement is now fully stripped. This is shown nicely in figure 33. Time to flip it over and finish off the dial side.
     
    Figure 33 – Finished with the train side
    Figure 34 shows the current state of the dial side of the movement. To get started I remove the minute train cover (079-890). Figure 35 shows this component after removal.
     

    Figure 34 – Dial side 
     

    Figure 35 – Minute train cover
    I can now remove the keyless work. The components are shown in figure 36. The minute wheel (072-520) and setting wheel (076-430) are removed first. These components are shown in figure 37 along with the minute train cover.
     

    Figure 36 – Keyless work components
     
     
    Figure 37 – Minute and setting wheel
    Referring back to figure 36, the next components to remove are the yoke (071-510) and setting lever spring (077-690). The stem can now be removed and then the clutch (064-450) is free to remove. The setting lever (067-860) was not removed as it’s press button is staked (spread). No sense disturbing this. Figure 38 shows the yoke and setting lever spring after removal. The clutch is shown in figure 39.
     

    Figure 38 – Yoke (left) and setting lever spring
     
     
    Figure 39 - Clutch
    Finally, the main plate is fully stripped. The dial side is shown in figure 40.
     

    Figure 40 – Main plate – dial side
    We can now deal with the barrel assembly (figure 41).
     

    Figure 41 – Mainspring barrel complete
    Using the steel anvil for support, gently press down on the gear teeth to pop the barrel cover off (figure 42).
     

    Figure 42 – Barrel cover removed
    Carefully remove the barrel arbor (figure 43).
     

    Figure 43 – Barrel arbor
    Unwind the mainspring from the barrel (figure 44).
     

    Figure 44 – Barrel with spring removed

    This completes the disassembly of the movement. My next step will be to clean it in the ultrasonic. Will post the reassembly as a new thread.
     
      
  11. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from dwhite in inca bloc   
    May be a bit of a tricky question. Yes - you can remove the balance from the watch while ignoring the shock system. You remove the balance cock, hairspring, balance and roller as a unit - the balance complete. The incabloc comes along for the ride. BUT --- this really comes down to what you are attempting to do on the watch. As part of a service, when you clean the balance, etc. you really need to remove the jewels from the incabloc in order to ensure that they are properly cleaned, dried and then lubricated.  My suggestion would be to get a few junk movements and practice, practice, practice!!!!
  12. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from dadistic in Abrasives with Screwhead Polisher   
    Recently acquired a beautiful screwhead polisher:

     
    The polisher came with two jars of abrasive powder. One is carborundum and the other diamantine. I am looking for some guidance as to which abrasive gets used on which lap and advice on how to charge the lap. There is a steel lap, a brass one and finally a wooden one.  Thanks in advance!
     
  13. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from rogart63 in Abrasives with Screwhead Polisher   
    Recently acquired a beautiful screwhead polisher:

     
    The polisher came with two jars of abrasive powder. One is carborundum and the other diamantine. I am looking for some guidance as to which abrasive gets used on which lap and advice on how to charge the lap. There is a steel lap, a brass one and finally a wooden one.  Thanks in advance!
     
  14. Thanks
    sstakoff got a reaction from dadistic in Full Walkthrough - Bulova 21J - Citizen/Miyota 82S0 movement Disassembly   
    This is a more detailed version of my previous picture-only post for this watch.
    This Bulova 21-jewel automatic was given to me by a colleague for repair. It was running extremely fast – gaining about 15 minutes per hour. The movement is a Citizen/Miyota 82S0 skeleton.
    Looking through the clear back it was obvious that the balance amplitude was extremely low. First step was to simply demagnetize the watch to see if that did the trick as it sometimes does. No dice. I then removed the balance and pallets and put a small amount of wind onto the mainspring. The train spun up but as power wore off the escape wheel stopped, then started again several times. It was a very sloppy action. Nothing obvious in terms of loose or cracked jewels or excessive side or end shake that I could see. I decided to disassemble the movement and give it a full servicing. Here is how I disassembled the movement. Where I can I will list the Miyota part number for reference. You can find the parts list here: http://miyotamovement.com/parts_search.php?open=82S0
    Figure 1 shows the face of the watch after removing from the case. Note the exposed balance at the 7 o’clock position.
     
    Figure 1 – Face
    Figure 2 shows the clear case back prior to removing the movement.
     

    Figure 2 – Case back
    The first step in disassembly is to remove the Oscillating weight (119-A17. Note that the weight is secured to a bearing that is pressed into the main plate. Unlike many Swiss movements, the screw securing the weight rotates with the weight itself. I used a peg wood stick to prevent the weight from rotating while unscrewing the fastener. Figure 3 shows the weight prior to removal. Figure 4 shows the oscillating weight after removal.
     

    Figure 3 – Preparing to remove the oscillating weight

     
    Figure 4 – Oscillating weight
    Figure 5 shows the movement after removing the oscillating weight. The plastic movement holder (500-710) is also visible. This will be removed after dealing with the hands and dial. I also removed the winding stem (figure 6) by pressing in on the setting lever and gently pulling the stem. The location for pressing on the setting lever was clipped from the pic, but it’s a standard setup.
     
    Figure 5 – Plastic movement holder
     
     
    Figure 6 – Winding stem
    After removing the stem, the movement was removed from the case. The stem was then reinstalled to facilitate power let-down, etc. With the oscillating weight removed, it’s a simple matter to lay the movement down dial-up on a piece of pith wood and remove the hands (Figure 7). The dial retaining screws on the side of the movement are loosened (not removed) and the dial is gently coaxed away from the movement by inserting a thin screwdriver blade. Figure 8 shows the dial after removal.
      
    Figure 7 – Hands
     

    Figure 8 – The Dial
    The movement holder shown in figure 5 is now lifted off. It is shown in figure 9 next to the movement.
     
    Figure 9 – Movement holder ring
     
    Figure 10 shows the dial side of the movement.

     
    Figure 10 – Dial side
    The movement is then flipped dial down and loaded into a movement holder for disassembly. The balance (039-102) is removed along with the balance bridge (710-191) as shown in figure 11.

    Figure 11 – Preparing to remove balance
    The balance complete is shown after removal in figure 12.
     

    Figure 12 – The balance complete
    Important: Before removing the pallets I need to remove all the power from the mainspring. I do this in the standard way – by applying a bit of winding pressure on the crown while pulling the click (060-390 in figure 11) out of the way with a bit of peg wood and allowing the stem to unwind in a slow/controlled manner.
     

    Figure 13 – About to remove pallets
    With the power let down I can now remove the pallet bridge (708-066) and pallets. Figure 13 shows the bridge prior to removal. The pallets and bridge are shown in figure 14.
     

    Figure 14 – Pallets and pallet bridge
    I probably should have removed the motion work prior to starting in on the balance – not sure why I didn’t. Regardless, we need to flip the movement back so I can remove the motion work from the dial side. 
    The hour wheel is held in place by the hour wheel spring (176-109). Remove the 2 retaining screws and then lift off the spring. The spring is shown prior to removal in figure 15.
     
    Figure 15 – Hour wheel spring prior to removal
    Once the hour wheel spring is out of the way I can remove the dial washer (078-140), the hour wheel (075-124) and finally the cannon pinion (using your favorite cannon pinion removal tool). These parts are shown after removal in figure 16.
     

    Figure 16 – Hour wheel spring, hour wheel, dial washer and cannon pinion

    Figure 17 shows the movement after removal of the motion work. It’s now time to flip the movement back over and start in on the gear train.
     

    Figure 17 – After removing the motion work
    I remove the three screws securing the barrel and train wheel bridge (701-F52) and carefully remove it. Figure 18 shows the underside of the bridge. Note that the seconds pinion friction spring (903-690) was left in place. I didn’t see the point in removing it. You can also see the oscillating weight bearing that is press fit into the bridge. I didn’t mess with this either!
     

    Figure 18 – Barrel and train wheel bridge and seconds pinion friction spring
    Figure 19 shows the detail after removing the barrel and train wheel bridge. First, I remove the reduction gear (088-120) and reversing wheel (141-190). These components are part of the automatic winding mechanism.  They are shown in figures 20 and 21 after removal. I make note that the reversing wheel should be installed with the brass side up.

     
    Figure 19 – After removing barrel and train wheel bridge
     
     
    Figure 20 – Reduction gear
     

    Figure 21 – Reversing wheel

    Next, remove the third wheel (017-760), fourth wheel (023-940) and escape wheel (032-106).  These are shown in figure 22.


    Figure 22 – From left to right – escape wheel, fourth wheel and third wheel
    Next, I remove the ratchet wheel (059-560) and the barrel complete (001-870), which sits directly underneath the ratchet wheel. Th.ese components are shown in figures 23 and 24.
     

    Figure 23 – Ratchet wheel
     

    Figure 24 – Barrel complete
    Looking back at figure 19, you can see a spring, very similar to a dial washer. This part is called the ratchet sliding wheel spring (078-150). Simply lift it off (figure 25).
     
    Figure 25 – Ratchet sliding wheel spring
    With the spring out of the way I can now see the ratchet sliding wheel (087-250). I remove this part along with the crown wheel (058-360). Figure 26 shows these parts. Ah – finally a picture that shows the setting lever release button I mentioned earlier! Pressing here allows the stem to be removed. I will leave the stem in place for now. Will get to it shortly. Figures 27 and 28 show the parts just removed.
     
    Figure 26 – Crown wheel and ratchet sliding wheel 
     

    Figure 27 – Crown wheel
     

    Figure 28 – Ratchet sliding wheel
    Figure 29 shows the click (060-390) and click spring (903-700), the center wheel cock (711-074), center wheel (012-116) and center seconds pinion (025-670). Technically I believe the center wheel cock should be named the center wheel bridge since it’s secured by more than one screw, but I’ll leave that open for debate.  Tension on the center seconds pinion is provided by the friction spring we saw back in figure 18.
     

    Figure 29 – Click and spring, center wheel and cock, center seconds pinion
    Figure 30 depicts the click and click spring after removal.
     
    Figure 30 – Click and click spring
    Figure 31 shows the center wheel in place after the center wheel cock has been removed.
     

    Figure 31 – After removal of the center wheel cock
    Figure 32 depicts these parts after removal.
     

    Figure 32 – Center wheel cock, center wheel and center seconds pinion
    The train side of the movement is now fully stripped. This is shown nicely in figure 33. Time to flip it over and finish off the dial side.
     
    Figure 33 – Finished with the train side
    Figure 34 shows the current state of the dial side of the movement. To get started I remove the minute train cover (079-890). Figure 35 shows this component after removal.
     

    Figure 34 – Dial side 
     

    Figure 35 – Minute train cover
    I can now remove the keyless work. The components are shown in figure 36. The minute wheel (072-520) and setting wheel (076-430) are removed first. These components are shown in figure 37 along with the minute train cover.
     

    Figure 36 – Keyless work components
     
     
    Figure 37 – Minute and setting wheel
    Referring back to figure 36, the next components to remove are the yoke (071-510) and setting lever spring (077-690). The stem can now be removed and then the clutch (064-450) is free to remove. The setting lever (067-860) was not removed as it’s press button is staked (spread). No sense disturbing this. Figure 38 shows the yoke and setting lever spring after removal. The clutch is shown in figure 39.
     

    Figure 38 – Yoke (left) and setting lever spring
     
     
    Figure 39 - Clutch
    Finally, the main plate is fully stripped. The dial side is shown in figure 40.
     

    Figure 40 – Main plate – dial side
    We can now deal with the barrel assembly (figure 41).
     

    Figure 41 – Mainspring barrel complete
    Using the steel anvil for support, gently press down on the gear teeth to pop the barrel cover off (figure 42).
     

    Figure 42 – Barrel cover removed
    Carefully remove the barrel arbor (figure 43).
     

    Figure 43 – Barrel arbor
    Unwind the mainspring from the barrel (figure 44).
     

    Figure 44 – Barrel with spring removed

    This completes the disassembly of the movement. My next step will be to clean it in the ultrasonic. Will post the reassembly as a new thread.
     
      
  15. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from Michael in Full Walkthrough - Bulova 21J - Citizen/Miyota 82S0 movement Disassembly   
    This is a more detailed version of my previous picture-only post for this watch.
    This Bulova 21-jewel automatic was given to me by a colleague for repair. It was running extremely fast – gaining about 15 minutes per hour. The movement is a Citizen/Miyota 82S0 skeleton.
    Looking through the clear back it was obvious that the balance amplitude was extremely low. First step was to simply demagnetize the watch to see if that did the trick as it sometimes does. No dice. I then removed the balance and pallets and put a small amount of wind onto the mainspring. The train spun up but as power wore off the escape wheel stopped, then started again several times. It was a very sloppy action. Nothing obvious in terms of loose or cracked jewels or excessive side or end shake that I could see. I decided to disassemble the movement and give it a full servicing. Here is how I disassembled the movement. Where I can I will list the Miyota part number for reference. You can find the parts list here: http://miyotamovement.com/parts_search.php?open=82S0
    Figure 1 shows the face of the watch after removing from the case. Note the exposed balance at the 7 o’clock position.
     
    Figure 1 – Face
    Figure 2 shows the clear case back prior to removing the movement.
     

    Figure 2 – Case back
    The first step in disassembly is to remove the Oscillating weight (119-A17. Note that the weight is secured to a bearing that is pressed into the main plate. Unlike many Swiss movements, the screw securing the weight rotates with the weight itself. I used a peg wood stick to prevent the weight from rotating while unscrewing the fastener. Figure 3 shows the weight prior to removal. Figure 4 shows the oscillating weight after removal.
     

    Figure 3 – Preparing to remove the oscillating weight

     
    Figure 4 – Oscillating weight
    Figure 5 shows the movement after removing the oscillating weight. The plastic movement holder (500-710) is also visible. This will be removed after dealing with the hands and dial. I also removed the winding stem (figure 6) by pressing in on the setting lever and gently pulling the stem. The location for pressing on the setting lever was clipped from the pic, but it’s a standard setup.
     
    Figure 5 – Plastic movement holder
     
     
    Figure 6 – Winding stem
    After removing the stem, the movement was removed from the case. The stem was then reinstalled to facilitate power let-down, etc. With the oscillating weight removed, it’s a simple matter to lay the movement down dial-up on a piece of pith wood and remove the hands (Figure 7). The dial retaining screws on the side of the movement are loosened (not removed) and the dial is gently coaxed away from the movement by inserting a thin screwdriver blade. Figure 8 shows the dial after removal.
      
    Figure 7 – Hands
     

    Figure 8 – The Dial
    The movement holder shown in figure 5 is now lifted off. It is shown in figure 9 next to the movement.
     
    Figure 9 – Movement holder ring
     
    Figure 10 shows the dial side of the movement.

     
    Figure 10 – Dial side
    The movement is then flipped dial down and loaded into a movement holder for disassembly. The balance (039-102) is removed along with the balance bridge (710-191) as shown in figure 11.

    Figure 11 – Preparing to remove balance
    The balance complete is shown after removal in figure 12.
     

    Figure 12 – The balance complete
    Important: Before removing the pallets I need to remove all the power from the mainspring. I do this in the standard way – by applying a bit of winding pressure on the crown while pulling the click (060-390 in figure 11) out of the way with a bit of peg wood and allowing the stem to unwind in a slow/controlled manner.
     

    Figure 13 – About to remove pallets
    With the power let down I can now remove the pallet bridge (708-066) and pallets. Figure 13 shows the bridge prior to removal. The pallets and bridge are shown in figure 14.
     

    Figure 14 – Pallets and pallet bridge
    I probably should have removed the motion work prior to starting in on the balance – not sure why I didn’t. Regardless, we need to flip the movement back so I can remove the motion work from the dial side. 
    The hour wheel is held in place by the hour wheel spring (176-109). Remove the 2 retaining screws and then lift off the spring. The spring is shown prior to removal in figure 15.
     
    Figure 15 – Hour wheel spring prior to removal
    Once the hour wheel spring is out of the way I can remove the dial washer (078-140), the hour wheel (075-124) and finally the cannon pinion (using your favorite cannon pinion removal tool). These parts are shown after removal in figure 16.
     

    Figure 16 – Hour wheel spring, hour wheel, dial washer and cannon pinion

    Figure 17 shows the movement after removal of the motion work. It’s now time to flip the movement back over and start in on the gear train.
     

    Figure 17 – After removing the motion work
    I remove the three screws securing the barrel and train wheel bridge (701-F52) and carefully remove it. Figure 18 shows the underside of the bridge. Note that the seconds pinion friction spring (903-690) was left in place. I didn’t see the point in removing it. You can also see the oscillating weight bearing that is press fit into the bridge. I didn’t mess with this either!
     

    Figure 18 – Barrel and train wheel bridge and seconds pinion friction spring
    Figure 19 shows the detail after removing the barrel and train wheel bridge. First, I remove the reduction gear (088-120) and reversing wheel (141-190). These components are part of the automatic winding mechanism.  They are shown in figures 20 and 21 after removal. I make note that the reversing wheel should be installed with the brass side up.

     
    Figure 19 – After removing barrel and train wheel bridge
     
     
    Figure 20 – Reduction gear
     

    Figure 21 – Reversing wheel

    Next, remove the third wheel (017-760), fourth wheel (023-940) and escape wheel (032-106).  These are shown in figure 22.


    Figure 22 – From left to right – escape wheel, fourth wheel and third wheel
    Next, I remove the ratchet wheel (059-560) and the barrel complete (001-870), which sits directly underneath the ratchet wheel. Th.ese components are shown in figures 23 and 24.
     

    Figure 23 – Ratchet wheel
     

    Figure 24 – Barrel complete
    Looking back at figure 19, you can see a spring, very similar to a dial washer. This part is called the ratchet sliding wheel spring (078-150). Simply lift it off (figure 25).
     
    Figure 25 – Ratchet sliding wheel spring
    With the spring out of the way I can now see the ratchet sliding wheel (087-250). I remove this part along with the crown wheel (058-360). Figure 26 shows these parts. Ah – finally a picture that shows the setting lever release button I mentioned earlier! Pressing here allows the stem to be removed. I will leave the stem in place for now. Will get to it shortly. Figures 27 and 28 show the parts just removed.
     
    Figure 26 – Crown wheel and ratchet sliding wheel 
     

    Figure 27 – Crown wheel
     

    Figure 28 – Ratchet sliding wheel
    Figure 29 shows the click (060-390) and click spring (903-700), the center wheel cock (711-074), center wheel (012-116) and center seconds pinion (025-670). Technically I believe the center wheel cock should be named the center wheel bridge since it’s secured by more than one screw, but I’ll leave that open for debate.  Tension on the center seconds pinion is provided by the friction spring we saw back in figure 18.
     

    Figure 29 – Click and spring, center wheel and cock, center seconds pinion
    Figure 30 depicts the click and click spring after removal.
     
    Figure 30 – Click and click spring
    Figure 31 shows the center wheel in place after the center wheel cock has been removed.
     

    Figure 31 – After removal of the center wheel cock
    Figure 32 depicts these parts after removal.
     

    Figure 32 – Center wheel cock, center wheel and center seconds pinion
    The train side of the movement is now fully stripped. This is shown nicely in figure 33. Time to flip it over and finish off the dial side.
     
    Figure 33 – Finished with the train side
    Figure 34 shows the current state of the dial side of the movement. To get started I remove the minute train cover (079-890). Figure 35 shows this component after removal.
     

    Figure 34 – Dial side 
     

    Figure 35 – Minute train cover
    I can now remove the keyless work. The components are shown in figure 36. The minute wheel (072-520) and setting wheel (076-430) are removed first. These components are shown in figure 37 along with the minute train cover.
     

    Figure 36 – Keyless work components
     
     
    Figure 37 – Minute and setting wheel
    Referring back to figure 36, the next components to remove are the yoke (071-510) and setting lever spring (077-690). The stem can now be removed and then the clutch (064-450) is free to remove. The setting lever (067-860) was not removed as it’s press button is staked (spread). No sense disturbing this. Figure 38 shows the yoke and setting lever spring after removal. The clutch is shown in figure 39.
     

    Figure 38 – Yoke (left) and setting lever spring
     
     
    Figure 39 - Clutch
    Finally, the main plate is fully stripped. The dial side is shown in figure 40.
     

    Figure 40 – Main plate – dial side
    We can now deal with the barrel assembly (figure 41).
     

    Figure 41 – Mainspring barrel complete
    Using the steel anvil for support, gently press down on the gear teeth to pop the barrel cover off (figure 42).
     

    Figure 42 – Barrel cover removed
    Carefully remove the barrel arbor (figure 43).
     

    Figure 43 – Barrel arbor
    Unwind the mainspring from the barrel (figure 44).
     

    Figure 44 – Barrel with spring removed

    This completes the disassembly of the movement. My next step will be to clean it in the ultrasonic. Will post the reassembly as a new thread.
     
      
  16. Thanks
    sstakoff got a reaction from Kraai in Full Walkthrough - Bulova 21J - Citizen/Miyota 82S0 movement Disassembly   
    This is a more detailed version of my previous picture-only post for this watch.
    This Bulova 21-jewel automatic was given to me by a colleague for repair. It was running extremely fast – gaining about 15 minutes per hour. The movement is a Citizen/Miyota 82S0 skeleton.
    Looking through the clear back it was obvious that the balance amplitude was extremely low. First step was to simply demagnetize the watch to see if that did the trick as it sometimes does. No dice. I then removed the balance and pallets and put a small amount of wind onto the mainspring. The train spun up but as power wore off the escape wheel stopped, then started again several times. It was a very sloppy action. Nothing obvious in terms of loose or cracked jewels or excessive side or end shake that I could see. I decided to disassemble the movement and give it a full servicing. Here is how I disassembled the movement. Where I can I will list the Miyota part number for reference. You can find the parts list here: http://miyotamovement.com/parts_search.php?open=82S0
    Figure 1 shows the face of the watch after removing from the case. Note the exposed balance at the 7 o’clock position.
     
    Figure 1 – Face
    Figure 2 shows the clear case back prior to removing the movement.
     

    Figure 2 – Case back
    The first step in disassembly is to remove the Oscillating weight (119-A17. Note that the weight is secured to a bearing that is pressed into the main plate. Unlike many Swiss movements, the screw securing the weight rotates with the weight itself. I used a peg wood stick to prevent the weight from rotating while unscrewing the fastener. Figure 3 shows the weight prior to removal. Figure 4 shows the oscillating weight after removal.
     

    Figure 3 – Preparing to remove the oscillating weight

     
    Figure 4 – Oscillating weight
    Figure 5 shows the movement after removing the oscillating weight. The plastic movement holder (500-710) is also visible. This will be removed after dealing with the hands and dial. I also removed the winding stem (figure 6) by pressing in on the setting lever and gently pulling the stem. The location for pressing on the setting lever was clipped from the pic, but it’s a standard setup.
     
    Figure 5 – Plastic movement holder
     
     
    Figure 6 – Winding stem
    After removing the stem, the movement was removed from the case. The stem was then reinstalled to facilitate power let-down, etc. With the oscillating weight removed, it’s a simple matter to lay the movement down dial-up on a piece of pith wood and remove the hands (Figure 7). The dial retaining screws on the side of the movement are loosened (not removed) and the dial is gently coaxed away from the movement by inserting a thin screwdriver blade. Figure 8 shows the dial after removal.
      
    Figure 7 – Hands
     

    Figure 8 – The Dial
    The movement holder shown in figure 5 is now lifted off. It is shown in figure 9 next to the movement.
     
    Figure 9 – Movement holder ring
     
    Figure 10 shows the dial side of the movement.

     
    Figure 10 – Dial side
    The movement is then flipped dial down and loaded into a movement holder for disassembly. The balance (039-102) is removed along with the balance bridge (710-191) as shown in figure 11.

    Figure 11 – Preparing to remove balance
    The balance complete is shown after removal in figure 12.
     

    Figure 12 – The balance complete
    Important: Before removing the pallets I need to remove all the power from the mainspring. I do this in the standard way – by applying a bit of winding pressure on the crown while pulling the click (060-390 in figure 11) out of the way with a bit of peg wood and allowing the stem to unwind in a slow/controlled manner.
     

    Figure 13 – About to remove pallets
    With the power let down I can now remove the pallet bridge (708-066) and pallets. Figure 13 shows the bridge prior to removal. The pallets and bridge are shown in figure 14.
     

    Figure 14 – Pallets and pallet bridge
    I probably should have removed the motion work prior to starting in on the balance – not sure why I didn’t. Regardless, we need to flip the movement back so I can remove the motion work from the dial side. 
    The hour wheel is held in place by the hour wheel spring (176-109). Remove the 2 retaining screws and then lift off the spring. The spring is shown prior to removal in figure 15.
     
    Figure 15 – Hour wheel spring prior to removal
    Once the hour wheel spring is out of the way I can remove the dial washer (078-140), the hour wheel (075-124) and finally the cannon pinion (using your favorite cannon pinion removal tool). These parts are shown after removal in figure 16.
     

    Figure 16 – Hour wheel spring, hour wheel, dial washer and cannon pinion

    Figure 17 shows the movement after removal of the motion work. It’s now time to flip the movement back over and start in on the gear train.
     

    Figure 17 – After removing the motion work
    I remove the three screws securing the barrel and train wheel bridge (701-F52) and carefully remove it. Figure 18 shows the underside of the bridge. Note that the seconds pinion friction spring (903-690) was left in place. I didn’t see the point in removing it. You can also see the oscillating weight bearing that is press fit into the bridge. I didn’t mess with this either!
     

    Figure 18 – Barrel and train wheel bridge and seconds pinion friction spring
    Figure 19 shows the detail after removing the barrel and train wheel bridge. First, I remove the reduction gear (088-120) and reversing wheel (141-190). These components are part of the automatic winding mechanism.  They are shown in figures 20 and 21 after removal. I make note that the reversing wheel should be installed with the brass side up.

     
    Figure 19 – After removing barrel and train wheel bridge
     
     
    Figure 20 – Reduction gear
     

    Figure 21 – Reversing wheel

    Next, remove the third wheel (017-760), fourth wheel (023-940) and escape wheel (032-106).  These are shown in figure 22.


    Figure 22 – From left to right – escape wheel, fourth wheel and third wheel
    Next, I remove the ratchet wheel (059-560) and the barrel complete (001-870), which sits directly underneath the ratchet wheel. Th.ese components are shown in figures 23 and 24.
     

    Figure 23 – Ratchet wheel
     

    Figure 24 – Barrel complete
    Looking back at figure 19, you can see a spring, very similar to a dial washer. This part is called the ratchet sliding wheel spring (078-150). Simply lift it off (figure 25).
     
    Figure 25 – Ratchet sliding wheel spring
    With the spring out of the way I can now see the ratchet sliding wheel (087-250). I remove this part along with the crown wheel (058-360). Figure 26 shows these parts. Ah – finally a picture that shows the setting lever release button I mentioned earlier! Pressing here allows the stem to be removed. I will leave the stem in place for now. Will get to it shortly. Figures 27 and 28 show the parts just removed.
     
    Figure 26 – Crown wheel and ratchet sliding wheel 
     

    Figure 27 – Crown wheel
     

    Figure 28 – Ratchet sliding wheel
    Figure 29 shows the click (060-390) and click spring (903-700), the center wheel cock (711-074), center wheel (012-116) and center seconds pinion (025-670). Technically I believe the center wheel cock should be named the center wheel bridge since it’s secured by more than one screw, but I’ll leave that open for debate.  Tension on the center seconds pinion is provided by the friction spring we saw back in figure 18.
     

    Figure 29 – Click and spring, center wheel and cock, center seconds pinion
    Figure 30 depicts the click and click spring after removal.
     
    Figure 30 – Click and click spring
    Figure 31 shows the center wheel in place after the center wheel cock has been removed.
     

    Figure 31 – After removal of the center wheel cock
    Figure 32 depicts these parts after removal.
     

    Figure 32 – Center wheel cock, center wheel and center seconds pinion
    The train side of the movement is now fully stripped. This is shown nicely in figure 33. Time to flip it over and finish off the dial side.
     
    Figure 33 – Finished with the train side
    Figure 34 shows the current state of the dial side of the movement. To get started I remove the minute train cover (079-890). Figure 35 shows this component after removal.
     

    Figure 34 – Dial side 
     

    Figure 35 – Minute train cover
    I can now remove the keyless work. The components are shown in figure 36. The minute wheel (072-520) and setting wheel (076-430) are removed first. These components are shown in figure 37 along with the minute train cover.
     

    Figure 36 – Keyless work components
     
     
    Figure 37 – Minute and setting wheel
    Referring back to figure 36, the next components to remove are the yoke (071-510) and setting lever spring (077-690). The stem can now be removed and then the clutch (064-450) is free to remove. The setting lever (067-860) was not removed as it’s press button is staked (spread). No sense disturbing this. Figure 38 shows the yoke and setting lever spring after removal. The clutch is shown in figure 39.
     

    Figure 38 – Yoke (left) and setting lever spring
     
     
    Figure 39 - Clutch
    Finally, the main plate is fully stripped. The dial side is shown in figure 40.
     

    Figure 40 – Main plate – dial side
    We can now deal with the barrel assembly (figure 41).
     

    Figure 41 – Mainspring barrel complete
    Using the steel anvil for support, gently press down on the gear teeth to pop the barrel cover off (figure 42).
     

    Figure 42 – Barrel cover removed
    Carefully remove the barrel arbor (figure 43).
     

    Figure 43 – Barrel arbor
    Unwind the mainspring from the barrel (figure 44).
     

    Figure 44 – Barrel with spring removed

    This completes the disassembly of the movement. My next step will be to clean it in the ultrasonic. Will post the reassembly as a new thread.
     
      
  17. Like
    sstakoff reacted to Greybeard in Full Walkthrough - Bulova 21J - Citizen/Miyota 82S0 movement Disassembly   
    What a brilliant easy to follow strip down loved it


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  18. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from Greybeard in Full Walkthrough - Bulova 21J - Citizen/Miyota 82S0 movement Disassembly   
    This is a more detailed version of my previous picture-only post for this watch.
    This Bulova 21-jewel automatic was given to me by a colleague for repair. It was running extremely fast – gaining about 15 minutes per hour. The movement is a Citizen/Miyota 82S0 skeleton.
    Looking through the clear back it was obvious that the balance amplitude was extremely low. First step was to simply demagnetize the watch to see if that did the trick as it sometimes does. No dice. I then removed the balance and pallets and put a small amount of wind onto the mainspring. The train spun up but as power wore off the escape wheel stopped, then started again several times. It was a very sloppy action. Nothing obvious in terms of loose or cracked jewels or excessive side or end shake that I could see. I decided to disassemble the movement and give it a full servicing. Here is how I disassembled the movement. Where I can I will list the Miyota part number for reference. You can find the parts list here: http://miyotamovement.com/parts_search.php?open=82S0
    Figure 1 shows the face of the watch after removing from the case. Note the exposed balance at the 7 o’clock position.
     
    Figure 1 – Face
    Figure 2 shows the clear case back prior to removing the movement.
     

    Figure 2 – Case back
    The first step in disassembly is to remove the Oscillating weight (119-A17. Note that the weight is secured to a bearing that is pressed into the main plate. Unlike many Swiss movements, the screw securing the weight rotates with the weight itself. I used a peg wood stick to prevent the weight from rotating while unscrewing the fastener. Figure 3 shows the weight prior to removal. Figure 4 shows the oscillating weight after removal.
     

    Figure 3 – Preparing to remove the oscillating weight

     
    Figure 4 – Oscillating weight
    Figure 5 shows the movement after removing the oscillating weight. The plastic movement holder (500-710) is also visible. This will be removed after dealing with the hands and dial. I also removed the winding stem (figure 6) by pressing in on the setting lever and gently pulling the stem. The location for pressing on the setting lever was clipped from the pic, but it’s a standard setup.
     
    Figure 5 – Plastic movement holder
     
     
    Figure 6 – Winding stem
    After removing the stem, the movement was removed from the case. The stem was then reinstalled to facilitate power let-down, etc. With the oscillating weight removed, it’s a simple matter to lay the movement down dial-up on a piece of pith wood and remove the hands (Figure 7). The dial retaining screws on the side of the movement are loosened (not removed) and the dial is gently coaxed away from the movement by inserting a thin screwdriver blade. Figure 8 shows the dial after removal.
      
    Figure 7 – Hands
     

    Figure 8 – The Dial
    The movement holder shown in figure 5 is now lifted off. It is shown in figure 9 next to the movement.
     
    Figure 9 – Movement holder ring
     
    Figure 10 shows the dial side of the movement.

     
    Figure 10 – Dial side
    The movement is then flipped dial down and loaded into a movement holder for disassembly. The balance (039-102) is removed along with the balance bridge (710-191) as shown in figure 11.

    Figure 11 – Preparing to remove balance
    The balance complete is shown after removal in figure 12.
     

    Figure 12 – The balance complete
    Important: Before removing the pallets I need to remove all the power from the mainspring. I do this in the standard way – by applying a bit of winding pressure on the crown while pulling the click (060-390 in figure 11) out of the way with a bit of peg wood and allowing the stem to unwind in a slow/controlled manner.
     

    Figure 13 – About to remove pallets
    With the power let down I can now remove the pallet bridge (708-066) and pallets. Figure 13 shows the bridge prior to removal. The pallets and bridge are shown in figure 14.
     

    Figure 14 – Pallets and pallet bridge
    I probably should have removed the motion work prior to starting in on the balance – not sure why I didn’t. Regardless, we need to flip the movement back so I can remove the motion work from the dial side. 
    The hour wheel is held in place by the hour wheel spring (176-109). Remove the 2 retaining screws and then lift off the spring. The spring is shown prior to removal in figure 15.
     
    Figure 15 – Hour wheel spring prior to removal
    Once the hour wheel spring is out of the way I can remove the dial washer (078-140), the hour wheel (075-124) and finally the cannon pinion (using your favorite cannon pinion removal tool). These parts are shown after removal in figure 16.
     

    Figure 16 – Hour wheel spring, hour wheel, dial washer and cannon pinion

    Figure 17 shows the movement after removal of the motion work. It’s now time to flip the movement back over and start in on the gear train.
     

    Figure 17 – After removing the motion work
    I remove the three screws securing the barrel and train wheel bridge (701-F52) and carefully remove it. Figure 18 shows the underside of the bridge. Note that the seconds pinion friction spring (903-690) was left in place. I didn’t see the point in removing it. You can also see the oscillating weight bearing that is press fit into the bridge. I didn’t mess with this either!
     

    Figure 18 – Barrel and train wheel bridge and seconds pinion friction spring
    Figure 19 shows the detail after removing the barrel and train wheel bridge. First, I remove the reduction gear (088-120) and reversing wheel (141-190). These components are part of the automatic winding mechanism.  They are shown in figures 20 and 21 after removal. I make note that the reversing wheel should be installed with the brass side up.

     
    Figure 19 – After removing barrel and train wheel bridge
     
     
    Figure 20 – Reduction gear
     

    Figure 21 – Reversing wheel

    Next, remove the third wheel (017-760), fourth wheel (023-940) and escape wheel (032-106).  These are shown in figure 22.


    Figure 22 – From left to right – escape wheel, fourth wheel and third wheel
    Next, I remove the ratchet wheel (059-560) and the barrel complete (001-870), which sits directly underneath the ratchet wheel. Th.ese components are shown in figures 23 and 24.
     

    Figure 23 – Ratchet wheel
     

    Figure 24 – Barrel complete
    Looking back at figure 19, you can see a spring, very similar to a dial washer. This part is called the ratchet sliding wheel spring (078-150). Simply lift it off (figure 25).
     
    Figure 25 – Ratchet sliding wheel spring
    With the spring out of the way I can now see the ratchet sliding wheel (087-250). I remove this part along with the crown wheel (058-360). Figure 26 shows these parts. Ah – finally a picture that shows the setting lever release button I mentioned earlier! Pressing here allows the stem to be removed. I will leave the stem in place for now. Will get to it shortly. Figures 27 and 28 show the parts just removed.
     
    Figure 26 – Crown wheel and ratchet sliding wheel 
     

    Figure 27 – Crown wheel
     

    Figure 28 – Ratchet sliding wheel
    Figure 29 shows the click (060-390) and click spring (903-700), the center wheel cock (711-074), center wheel (012-116) and center seconds pinion (025-670). Technically I believe the center wheel cock should be named the center wheel bridge since it’s secured by more than one screw, but I’ll leave that open for debate.  Tension on the center seconds pinion is provided by the friction spring we saw back in figure 18.
     

    Figure 29 – Click and spring, center wheel and cock, center seconds pinion
    Figure 30 depicts the click and click spring after removal.
     
    Figure 30 – Click and click spring
    Figure 31 shows the center wheel in place after the center wheel cock has been removed.
     

    Figure 31 – After removal of the center wheel cock
    Figure 32 depicts these parts after removal.
     

    Figure 32 – Center wheel cock, center wheel and center seconds pinion
    The train side of the movement is now fully stripped. This is shown nicely in figure 33. Time to flip it over and finish off the dial side.
     
    Figure 33 – Finished with the train side
    Figure 34 shows the current state of the dial side of the movement. To get started I remove the minute train cover (079-890). Figure 35 shows this component after removal.
     

    Figure 34 – Dial side 
     

    Figure 35 – Minute train cover
    I can now remove the keyless work. The components are shown in figure 36. The minute wheel (072-520) and setting wheel (076-430) are removed first. These components are shown in figure 37 along with the minute train cover.
     

    Figure 36 – Keyless work components
     
     
    Figure 37 – Minute and setting wheel
    Referring back to figure 36, the next components to remove are the yoke (071-510) and setting lever spring (077-690). The stem can now be removed and then the clutch (064-450) is free to remove. The setting lever (067-860) was not removed as it’s press button is staked (spread). No sense disturbing this. Figure 38 shows the yoke and setting lever spring after removal. The clutch is shown in figure 39.
     

    Figure 38 – Yoke (left) and setting lever spring
     
     
    Figure 39 - Clutch
    Finally, the main plate is fully stripped. The dial side is shown in figure 40.
     

    Figure 40 – Main plate – dial side
    We can now deal with the barrel assembly (figure 41).
     

    Figure 41 – Mainspring barrel complete
    Using the steel anvil for support, gently press down on the gear teeth to pop the barrel cover off (figure 42).
     

    Figure 42 – Barrel cover removed
    Carefully remove the barrel arbor (figure 43).
     

    Figure 43 – Barrel arbor
    Unwind the mainspring from the barrel (figure 44).
     

    Figure 44 – Barrel with spring removed

    This completes the disassembly of the movement. My next step will be to clean it in the ultrasonic. Will post the reassembly as a new thread.
     
      
  19. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from vinn3 in ID this grease   
    Hmm. It says that it is for barrel springs. So maybe similar to 8200??
  20. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from mcass in Minute hand problems....   
    See below... I had to think about this a while - I always get it mixed up, but I still say canon pinion holds minute hand

  21. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from oldhippy in Minute hand problems....   
    Your connections are correct, but math is not :).  Center wheel and canon pinion rotate together. Canon pinion drives minute wheel which drives hour wheel. But the minute hand is attached to the canon pinion. The minute hand (and hence the canon pinion) make 1 rotation per hour!  The fourth wheel (with the seconds hand attached) will rotate once per minute
  22. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from mcass in Minute hand problems....   
    Your connections are correct, but math is not :).  Center wheel and canon pinion rotate together. Canon pinion drives minute wheel which drives hour wheel. But the minute hand is attached to the canon pinion. The minute hand (and hence the canon pinion) make 1 rotation per hour!  The fourth wheel (with the seconds hand attached) will rotate once per minute
  23. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from mcass in Minute hand problems....   
    Correct - your issue is certainly in the motion works given that the second hand continues to operate. So your first stop should be the canon pinion. See my previous post for other considerations. You're getting close!!!
  24. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from mcass in Minute hand problems....   
    Safe to assume the hour hand is not running either given that it is ultimately driven by the canon pinion->minute Wheel->hour wheel. In addition to the keyless work, this could be a basic issue with the motion work. Could be a broken tooth on the canon pinion, minute wheel or hour wheel. Could simply be a loose canon pinion. When setting the hands, do they move extremely freely -- i.e. too loose, or can you feel some resistance caused by the friction fit of the canon pinion to the center wheel post??? What lubrication did you use on the post prior to installing the canon pinion? Are you 100% certain that the canon pinion is set fully onto the post?
    Removing the dial is critical. Perhaps your keyless work is not installed correctly (e.g. yoke or yoke spring) and the sliding pinion (clutch) is engaging the intermediate wheel when it should not be - this would stop the minute and hour hands, but not the second hand.
     
    Good luck!
  25. Like
    sstakoff got a reaction from kevinb95 in Teardown question   
    Disassembling while in the case shouldn't damage anything. What I would have suggested is that you see if you can wiggle the movement out by gently lifting from the 9 o'clock side - opposite the stem - in case the stem is broken as you note. If it is broken in there it can present a bit of a challenge to remove. Now that you have begun disassembly, can you see the stem??? You may need to continue down this road. If you get sight of it, you may need to loosen the set lever and try and push the stem out by using an old oiler. You should be able to see the stem by looking into the crown opening and using a flashlight. 
    I have run into another situation previously where the real reason I could not remove the movement is that someone had glued the dial to the main plate since the feet had broken. The glue spread and essentially bonded the movement to the case. Let's hope that's not your issue!
    Keep us posted.
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