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JohnTosto

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  1. Hi All Thanks I believe I understand, jewel hole 13 size does not mean you would pair with a .13 pivot shaft with a jewel that has a 13 hole it means that the jewel hole is .13 too. Which now makes sense with what I was seeing when using the jewel gauges. I won't/shouldn't expected for a .13 gauge to fit in the jewel 13 hole as it would be a perfect fit and is why a .11 pivot gauge did fit as there is clearance. So would I be correct in thinking if I have a balance shaft with a pivot size of .13 that the jewel I would want would be a 15 hole? JohnR725, they are Elgin 291, I purchased 5 of them over last couple months(military black dial yr 1943). One I have working (you helped me my balance shaft question) but wanted to replace the upper and lower jewels (balance shaft pivot .13) and why the question and based on both answers looks like I order wrong size. Two others that I am taking advantage of current situation (staying home) to work on, both had broken balance shaft as well (both pivots) and I used the jewel gauges to figure what pivot size they mostly likely were by seeing which gauge fits into the jewel. I haven't really looked at other two yet. watchweasol thanks I will look for video (I have finished 1st two of his class videos working on 3rd). Regards, John
  2. Hi All I have a pocket watch that I am working on that I needed to replace balance shaft and the upper and lower balance jewels. Shaft has been replaced and both jewels are held in by jewel cap and screws so should be an easy replacement. I found replacement jewels on ebay they are the right type (fits in balance cock) but the wrong pivot size, I ordered hole 13 thinking they would be pivot size .13 however they are pivot size .11 (used a jewel gauge to check). When ordering jewels was I wrong to think hole 13 was pivot .13? Regards, John
  3. Hi All I have a newbie tool question. I think I picked up a good find on eBay for 40.00, I purchased a set of metric jewel gauges (SWARTCHILD'S) with only the .07 gauge broken. The question is am I using it correctly? I started doing some balance shaft replacement and learned real quick that same part number doesn't mean same pivot size. Most of the pocket watches that I have purchased with broken balance shafts seem to be missing both pivots so what I am doing (pictures attached) is placing the lower or upper jewel on a piece of rodico, using a high power loupe, holding gauge with fingers and seeing what size fits best, usually try and work backwards (larger size working towards smaller). I just feel that the pivots on the gauges are pretty fragile and could break very easily, is this the best way to use the tool? Regards, John
  4. Hi All I have a follow up to a previous post, below is link to post. https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/14190-selecting-the-correct-balance-shaft/ With the help of JohnR725 I discovered that when ordering a replacement balance shaft you have to be careful as there can be more than one type/size per part number along with different pivots sizes. Long story short I ordered the correct shaft (elgin 861 NS P.13) and was successful at disassemble, replacement, reassemble. I have a couple of the same model pocket watches with at least same issue (bad balance shaft) can I replace an 861 NS P.13 with a 861 NS P.12 if I also replace the upper and lower balance jewels with P .12 size jewels? Reason I ask is that I am finding the availability (at least currently) of 861 NS P.12 more abundant. Regards John
  5. Thanks everyone for responses and help, Nucejoe thanks for the lesson/education I just assumed same part number (wheel and spring) interchangeable. I went back and found original spring and what an improvement!!!! Still have some positional errors going to look into but feel I am much closer to getting this piece working, again thanks and sure I will be asking for help again soon. Everyone stay safe!
  6. Hi All Nucejoe - I believe I have the correct spring, the scrapper I got the hairspring from had same part number based on this website and serial numbers. https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/ Rduckwor - I tried what you suggested and unfortunately after 12 hrs the watch gained roughly 8 minutes. Things have changed a little and believe I might be in a better place or maybe worse hoping you can tell me. My replacement shafts came in and successfully replaced and reassembled balance so watch now has its original balance wheel however now rate is not registering at all, have I just made matter worse and so out of wack its not able to display rate? I adjusted the regulator for a flat waveform however strangely noticing at the same interval a set of lines at the top of screen (picture attached), any help as always is greatly appreciated. Regards John IMG_4378.MOV
  7. Hi All Thanks everyone for their help, I successful replaced the balance shaft, it took me two tries however learn from my first mistake and now on to the next issue. Regards John
  8. Hi Hector, Here is the picture I believe you asked for.
  9. I need help diagnosing old pocket watch that is running too fast I will try to give as much detail as possible, this is a previously mentioned project WW2 Elgin pocket watch. Elgin Prod yr 1943 16s 7 jewel model 7 grade 291 Ser# 41375491 It was a complete non-runner when I purchased it, I found the following issues. · Broken balance shaft pivots · Bent Seconds wheel pivot · Broken top pivot 3rd wheel · Cracked balance jewel lower. · Broken crystal I have a couple of scrappers ser # 30275963, 27820507 & 29280899 all according to the below link share the same parts that I need including balance wheel. https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/ Still I want to replace shaft, I ordered a balance shaft and my 1st attempt didn’t go as planned, I did not have a problem with the disassemble but failed at spreading the rivet, not to bore everyone with details but think I used too small of a domed stake, when I lifted the stake after a few taps the wheel and shaft lifted too, use tweezers to pull down……yes you guessed broken lower pivot any way have a couple more on order and think I learn an important lesson. Again, I do have a good balance wheel from scrapper along with bottom balance jewel, 3rd & 4th wheel. · Cleaned bridges, wheels, gears, all parts (parts from scrapper too) · Checked balance spring pose · Adjusted collet so while balance wheel is at rest pallet fork is in the center of banking pins · Reassembled and lubricated It runs now, would like to see a little higher amplitude (211), for its age I think beat error is good (0.2ms) however my real concern is the rate is horrible (+781 s/d) My first thought was contaminates or magnetism of the hairspring but all looks good. Here are a few pictures of hairspring, balance pivots, banking pins wheel at rest and timegrapher. Any help and suggestions are appreciated. Regards John
  10. Thanks again for the information, the long and short of it is I think I might have made a few missteps when I was trying to use parts from a couple of scrappers I had that i used pocketwatchdatabase.com helped identify. Looks promising as I found a good balance wheel, hairspring and shaft of the same part number and after cleaning seems to swing freely after mounted. I think I need the NS 861 .13 pivot shaft based out of what I was able to pull from the scrappers of same model and order one from ebay. I already purchased a K&B 602R that came with the balance staff remover so hopefully this weekend I will have successfully replaced the broken shaft. Thanks again regards, john
  11. Hello all, Thanks for taking the time to respond hoping you don't mind a couple follow-up questions. Again very new to this, is there somewhere I can get my hands on an Elgin factory parts book or pdf or better yet a source were I could find parts books for all different manufactures? I might be getting into the weeds but I have a few of the same grade (which had the same wheel and shaft part number) movements and found two that appear to have good balance shafts. Overall measurement of original shaft with both pivots broken is 4.80 mm, haven't removed roller yet (tool coming in mail) so really no other measurements 1st balance wheel/shaft I have overall measurement is 5.35mm with pivot of .13mm. This spins freely with balance cock seated but not screwed in and the moment I tighten down slightly it no longer free spins. 2nd balance wheel/shaft I have overall measurement is 5.27mm (which doesn't make sense unless it because the pivots are worn) and pivots of .12mm. This one spins freely even with the balance cock tighten however I found even if I apply slight pressure on the cock there is no effect. Based on the above here is what I concluded and hoping you will tell me if I am off base , correct or somewhere in between. The overall length I want is 5.32mm, my guess is why readings are not dead on to the chart is my fear of damaging pivots while measuring, regardless I believe that wheel with overall measurement of 5.27 to be too short as I understand that slightly pushing down on the cock should stop the wheel or you have too much end shake. I feel that .13mm pivot is too large and is why when have the 1st balance wheel installed stops moving freely when the cock is slightly tightened. If I am correct with the 2nd balance wheel overall length is an in between measurement of what the charts say and its because it is worn then not a fair test for pivot size and it is possible if correct length I could see same results as 1st wheel. I have read in other posts that pivot size can be checked by placing one of the jewels on the pivot and it should just slightly pop out but is that a fair test if I suspect the pivot is worn?
  12. Hello everyone this is only my second post (1st in intro). I have a project pocket watch that I am working on (something for my younger son he like ww2 era ) lucky for me there seems to be a lot of scrappers out there (couple wheels had a bent or broken pivot) however not the greatest luck getting one with a good balance shaft. I would like to try my hand at balance replacement, I have staking set tool and other necessary tools, below are the pocket watch details. elgin 16s, 7j grade 291 model 7 Class 110 Man yr 1943 I found the manufactures part number for the balance shaft (861) but then quickly discover (after searching ebay) there are a few version how do I determine which is the correct one, both pivots are gone.
  13. Hello everyone, I have always like to tinker even as a kid just never had the right tools, recently a friend and colleague rekindled my interest in watches (more the fix/repair side). Ebay is great getting everything from scrappers, fixer uppers and tools. I have had pretty good success with tear downs and repairs (haven't lost any parts lately), I enrolled in Marks course (finished 1 & 2 working on 3) and looking on increasing my knowledge in skill with watch repair.
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