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  1. I have wondered if a timing machine can do this. Some go down to what I think is the correct bph but tried it and the graph was rather strange and of no use. I wondered if that was down to lift angle setting as they don't have one - maybe. From an interest in amateur radio the usual things that age more is the bits around the crystal that cause it to oscillate. Temperature has an effect on those and the crystal as well. I understand modern quartz watches are calibrated via programming the watch so there isn't any adjustment. May just relate to more expensive one but would be easy to do with all - just design fast and skip some of the 32kHz pulses now and again. I'd adjust it by making small adjustments ever day till it was correct if a timing machine can't do the job. Accurate frequency meters are likely to be expensive. Don't know I have only ever bought tat. John -
  2. One thing I didn't mention clearly was that the time accuracies I mentioned were worn. I tried the highest rate on the winder on the CW watch last night. It looks like it will gain earlier in the day and loose towards the end might even be no gain or loss of any significance over several days. One day though and it takes longer to tell. The Bulova going on several days is unlikely to need resetting for a pretty long time. I suppose that as it's the Calibrator they have gone to more trouble than usual to set it up. Not sure I would like adjusting it any closer than it is as no idea how much gearing there is between their adjustment and the usual one inside. Bulova stopped making Acu Swiss some time ago so that may explain why it seems to need more watch winder spins than the CW. Really not sure yet, need to test it in the new winder. Wish they had carried on making them - made an offer on one of the chronometers that I thought might be refused and it wasn't. Do I need a chronometer - no, did I fancy one yes. Am I a watch collector - no. I just tend to keep watches I have bought and worn but fancied a change. I wouldn't have bought at anything like their original retail price. John -
  3. I checked the power reserve of the Bulova. 40hrs as near as I can tell but that is correct to relatively few mins. I very much doubt if the CW will be any different. I also contacted a larger watch dealer and asked the same question. Reply - it's very common and one partial solution is watches with higher power reserve but many people will still find that run down will at some point need attention. The Bulova with daily checks and use of the watch winder was holding time to within 4 secs and often 2 secs over several days. Couple of days using the watch winder on the CW and so far I can't really see any change. Not sure how long they will be like this but it's the only info I have to go on. As both gain more than this daily fully wound using them part run down seems desirable to me and preferable to fully winding them every 2 days. Watch winders are another matter though. As one seems to need vertical spins bought another. It doesn't behave as the listing or it's manual suggests so may not wind them up enough. The mode they should do according to the listing is they one I might need. John -
  4. Both watches had 40+ turns to wind them initially one of them more than once and a 50+. Good idea though I can check the power reserve easily enough. The Bulova holds better than 4 sec a day, usually 2 both fast since it's spent over night in the watch winder but that had to be on it's side so that the watch was vertical. It lost as the winder should be used where the watches are at 45 degrees - significantly. The idea with this watch is to wear for a couple of weeks, see how much the time is out and adjust to suite. That can be done externally with a key that comes with it. They initially used ETA movements so not sure which mine is. The other is a COSC Christopher Ward, I doubt if he would use clone movements. Behaviour without the watch winder much like the Bulova. It's one of their "retro" divers watches. I like watches to be a bit subdued. I'll see what this does along with the watch winder next while the Bulova is running down. Clutch? I gained the impression that the clutch was the spring slipping at some point as it's wound up plus some grease to minimise wear. John -
  5. The time keeping accuracy is fine wound up. The problem I'm asking about is what seems to be needed to keep them even partly wound up. I have a feeling this is normal for a far few people but aren't sure. The chance of some duplicating the number of vertical rotations that are needed in a watch winder during normal life are remote. I have a Tg setup for timing but have been checking daily variations against my pc which is linked to one of the usual time servers. The accuracy worn is pretty spectacular - providing they are reasonably wound up - seems need circa 1/2 fully wound or more. I'm not convinced that 1/2 a day jogging or in a gym would do that, I have no intention of servicing either of them only trying on a couple of Russian ones and possibly a Seiko movement well past it's sell by date first - one from india that stated balance seems to be ok. That should tell me if I can take one apart and put it back together again. Making that one work again though could be tricky. It's totally dead. John _
  6. Not exactly a watch repair question but probably more experience of variations here. I have a watch I hope to service so will wonder about this then as well. 2 new watches both with SW200 movements. I haven't worn an automatic for a very long time but they always kept themselves wound up. I suspect the beat rates were lower than they are of late. I'm retired now but in terms of activity I'd say it's similar to many office workers that have a PC in front of them. I probably make far more mugs of tea and lunch etc. Fully wound both stop after the 3rd day, early morning when I'm asleep. Both gain on the first day, settle more on the 2nd and then loose. I tried few winds every night on one but didn't help much so bought a watch winder. Spins at around 18 rpm for 2min and then pauses for 6min. Rotation direction reverses on each spin. The watches are at about 45 degrees. So tried overnight maybe 10hrs in it on one of the watches. It wound sufficiently for the watch to be well into the running down wind. Stood the watch winder on end so that they rotated vertically and it wound to the point where there was a slight time gain a day. In fact I think it slows a little towards the end of the day. As it's a couple of secs hard to tell. This is a Bulova Calibrator. Couldn't resist it due to the price drop. It doesn't have the transparent back or slightly more showy dial so not sure if it's an early one with an ETA movement. Suspect not. The other one is a Christopher Ward COSC. As it takes days to find out what the watch winder will do not done anything but it's in the watch winder 24hrs a day. Maybe 10hrs vertical rotation and the rest at 45degrees. I suspect it's lost time. If near fully wound I'd expect it to gain. Can't be sure about this one though. One thing I have noticed when one has run down is that if I wear it for the day it doesn't really start at all. Fit's in after a fashion with my usual day extending 38hrs reserve to 60 70 odd. If I try the most common forearm movement - horizontal to vertical etc it doesn't seem to wind. Karate chops do achieve something as does a general firm shaking around. Nobody moves like that. I also have well worn Russian watch that can''t be hand wound. Some of the chrome has worn of the bezel. Just picking that one up often starts it. One thing I have noticed on a watch that I hope to service never done it before is that when it's fully wound the weight is incapable of winding. This probably happens before it's actually fully wound. I'm left wondering if the world is full of automatics that people are likely to find don't self wind. Or if some are better than others and even if there is variation in the same movement model one watch to another of the same make and model etc. When I wore an automatic before men where men and things often worked as expected. John -
  7. I bought one with a single die, ebay so chinese that stated for Rolex. Going on that one diameter isn't what matters only the fit of the "knurling". I only use it to change the battery on an oysterquartz and my recollection is that it's a little smaller in diameter than the case back. It's ok to use providing that enough downforce is applied but it fits well. John -
  8. You may do better asking here https://forums.calibre11.com/ There is also a lot of general information about their watches on the site. John -
  9. Tg seems to be generally accepted but unfortunately it's not just a simple case of downloading the software and using it. It needs the correct type of amplifier to boost the signal and from where I am sitting the stand for the watch needs some thought as well. Unfortunately a stand with mic for the Chinese timographer costs not far off what the entire set up does. There are details of the sort of things needed here http://www.watchoscope.com/ I think he sells built amps on ebay.com. The alternative, buying a preamp isn't that good an idea as it will be for the audio frequency range which is too high for this sort of applications and traces will often be unstable. So main problem is that the approach involves some diy. John -
  10. I'm pretty sure he does show how to "oil" a main spring in one of the general servicing videos. In quotes as what is used is similar in some ways to a grease. John -
  11. On the other hand what might be called normal watches at all sorts of price ranges are bought and sold based on condition. An auction house for instance might describe marks as being visible to the eye or only visible with a 4x loupe or not even visible then. The degree of the marks or what ever will set it's price when it's sold. So in many cases a correctly restored watch will fetch more than one that isn't. Generally a watch will need to be functional - keeping it like that is likely to need what is really restoration rather than conservation as parts may need replacing. Conservation vs restoration crops up with antiques as well. Some items can be past the stage where conservation is an option so have to be restored. Originality of materials and techniques matter then. Same applies to paintings. Many need cleaning at some point. A high value one may be done in a way that retains the original brush strokes. A lower value one may not but in that case they might leave the signature area exactly as it was. A painting may be damaged - fixed with a brush and paint etc if it's worth doing. I don't see watches as being any different really. In the case of WW watches condition relates to them being genuine but even that can be faked. A fake can also be the same as an original especially on something like a watch. John -
  12. I've never serviced a watch but want to try. The materials will cost more than the victim. This particular subject is the most confusing of the lot so have spent a lot of time searching for technical manuals on movements. It seems a service should involve replacing the entire barrel assembly these days. Only exception and it may be old details is the 7750-7765 where they just suggest a smear of a rather expensive braking grease on the outside end of the spring. I assume that lubricates the barrel as the spring slips. 8217 is said to provide normal braking on any barrel. A lot cheaper than Kluber P125. Interestingly they don't use many lubricants. Just 9010, 941or9415 and D5 which can be replaced by HP1300 according to some. ETA use HP-1300, 9504, 9010, 9415. Also coloured HP-1300 on the 2824. Entire barrel replaced. It would be interesting to find much older details. Info on older Seiko do give details. 2 oils S2 and S3. Not on the spring itself but on the roof and edge of the barrel. S3 if there is a black ring. It seems this one was a grease with an additive. Sounds like an 8200 equivalent, S3 maybe with graphite. The moly one can have problems with that settling into the bottom of it's container so personally I would avoid it. They use S6 which is a silicone elsewhere in newer movements where details are given. Cousins stock it. I've only looked at the NH3x. Also S4 and 9010, 9010 even on the pallets and in the usual places. I can't see any use of S4 on this movement so probably used on another. Lubricating the spring itself? Mark uses 8200. The www jungle varies a bit. Too thin, use one with an additive. Few drops of some oil on the spring. None and braking on part of the spring makes most sense to me or maybe 8200 etc on the rest as well. While looking around I came across thisMoebiusLubes.pdf and found it useful. It mentions a number of makes. One intended for springs is based on paraffin wax. Pass but it takes a long time for candles to degrade. It's pretty stable stuff. John -
  13. I did wonder about the spelling and didn't think break sounder right and should be brake but maybe some people regularly break cars to a stop in some parts of the world. The get broke all over the world. There is no clear answer in this thread - not unusual on this subject so maybe it has a mythical / historic aspect and people do all sorts as a result. John -
  14. I've seen a number of suggestions that 8201 or 8301 should be used, 8301 because that person thought 8201 was too runny. It seems odd to me that synthetics are used every where else but graphite will lubricate for ever if it stays there and in a sense the "oil" breaking down under pressure doesn't matter, Also comments that many modern springs come precoated - ptfe, teflon or something of that order. I'm not clear what breaking grease is meant to achieve. Maybe some one can explain. Auto's and mechanical. A few drops of oil are also mentioned after the spring has been installed. That could be lightly wiped on a excess wiped off as per when a grease is used. This could be a synthetic but which one? A Seiko technical reference I have mentions Seiko 2 on the lid and edge of the barrel and Seiko 3 on the arbour. Nothing on the spring. This is for a 6309A. So called normal amount of oil in both cases. Seiko 2 is for things that slip. S 3 has graphite in it and is also used in the mainspring area on some Seiko movements. It's all very confusing to a beginner. As an engineer I'm inclined to think with graphite and light so 8201 but also as an engineer wonder why there doesn't appear to be a suitable synthetic but maybe one of the HP's is as they have additives - moly or graphite I suppose. John -
  15. I got off to a bad start on this thread. Title should be chronometers - automatics. Maybe a mod can edit it for me. My brain was elsewhere when I posted. It came back as soon as I looked at the thread again. John -
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