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saswatch88

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Everything posted by saswatch88

  1. no you have to remove the jewel first before you measure its diameter accurately. and yes diameter of the pivot would be the diameter of the hole in the jewel.
  2. polishing pivots will definitely help but i dont think your gunna see 50 degree increase in amplitude since all pivots and jewels have been clean and oiled. i dont really like the wood with rouge or oil method, i use a sapphire burnisher with some clock oil. but if you dont have $100 to spend on a burnisher use popsicle stick with clock oil. do this: with watch running gently press on the top balance endstone with pegwood. keyword "gently." does it stop the balance when you do this? YES? too little end shake. if it does not stop then press harder (not too hard) on the end stone does the balance stop: NO? then you have too much end shake. also check the shock spring. sometimes i have seen these things way too flat with no "spring" in them cause upper jewel to sit loose in the cock causing fluctuations in different timing positions. when the spring is removed it should slightly pop just like anytime you remove tension from a spring. but not fly off just sorta "pop." another thing to look at is tightening balance cock screw i had a few movements that werent running right and i added a little more torque to the balance screw and bam was running perfect. if that screw is not properly torqued the top and bottom jewel holes may not be exactly perpendicular and/or giving too much end shake. in some cases slightly removing a tiny bit of torque can solve too little end shake, but in more extreme cases shims will be needed since the balance screw should never be too loose or have too little torque.
  3. first you need to know the shape of the jewel i believe its most likely convex olive shaped. inside shape doesnt mean much so go with olive shaped holes not cylindrical. top shape can be seen with naked eye. its either domed up in (convex) or domed in (flat). you will have to measure the width of the jewel and the pivot with a pivot gauge. pivot gauges are hard to come by...sometimes if you search mainspring gauge on ebay you find one since they look similar to mainspring gauges because they have a slit that you slide the pivot in until it stops. others are jeweled gauges but they are kind of expensive. i attached a sample of both from ebay and the seitz jewels ordering page from ofrei.com. you will see the diagram of jewel shapes. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Watchmakers-pivot-gauge-jewelling-tool-jacot-tool-Watchmakers-Clearance/323769671356?hash=item4b622d1ebc:g:iSoAAOSwLdVcoPJo&frcectupt=true https://www.ebay.com/itm/KWM-Zapfenmass-Pivot-Gauge-Clockmakers-Clock-Bushing-Size-Guide-Watchmaker/113713126411?hash=item1a79d49c0b:g:djQAAOSw8bdcrK7c&frcectupt=true http://www.ofrei.com/page939.html
  4. DU low amplitude normally involves an issue with shakes, balance pivots, or shock proof system. inspect pivot jewels for any cracks or imperfections. check end/side shakes of balance check balance pivots make sure they are not bent or worn down check balance wheel and make sure its poised
  5. so maybe he should use the 1.1 then which was originally in there, assuming someone else didnt have their hands in it before. Mike i cant find any parts list for that caliber or part numbers. citizen is not the best when it comes to this which is why i always preferred seiko which parts lists can be obtained for almost every caliber and even full service manuals can be downloaded offline.... some avenues to try would be the citizen seiko forum https://www.thewatchsite.com/ also speedtimerkollektion has various parts and movements for citizen.
  6. UM yes i have. many of them. mostly ETA and seiko, never a citizen though. and i do know some older automatics have smooth barrels and rely only on the bridle for slipping. vintage Seikos for example has a smooth barrel. modern automatics such as ETA 7750 are notched and i dont see photo of empty barrel i just see a pic of broken file. and I never said I was right, it was an observation i made in order to give a possible solution. the photo i posted with red arrows is what looks like a notch in the barrel.
  7. yes but again there has to be something in the barrel for the bridle to lean against to stop it. Right mainspring, properly oiled and installed yet still slipping. so what it is then? OP can you please take a pic of the barrel without the MS installed. thanks
  8. i understand that he said it was opposite of conventional, but that doesnt matter. the spring should still wind opposite the notch/lip in the barrel no matter what the direction is. if it doesnt then there is nothing stopping the spring from sliding around the barrel walls when winding. and i dont fully wind it that would be a difficult task 100%, i just go about 1-5 turns. in that amount of turns you can tell if MS is warped and within the first turn you see if its slipping off the arbor.
  9. NUCE i do wind test with lid off all the time, if the barrel is secured and arbor tightly gripped while winding then it will not pop out unless the spring is badly warped and you dont keep a tight grip on the barrel. i grip from the sides of barrel and allow the edge of my fingertips to rest over the edge of the barrel on top of the spring ensuring it wont come out. it is the best way to see what going on under the hood in my opinion and saves on the guessing games and i never had one jump out on me. NICKEL i have to both agree and disagree with popping up of the spring. usually when i observe the spring with lid off it will pop up a bit due to the hook on the arbor being a tiny bit higher than the center of the hole in the end. but it should never come out any higher than the arbor for that would mean excessive rubbing and friction on the lid. nor should the spring be coning up at the "un-winded" rest position. it should lay perfectly flat which it seems to do in the pics. usually it will only take a few rotations of the spring to see this and can be stopped before spring pops out. these pliers work wonders when it comes to shaping the hole end of the spring. ALSO did anyone look at the picture i attached in my last post does anyone agree that it looks like the MS is installed in the wrong direction?? when compared to pics of barrels i just attaches you can see they are all winding in the opposite direction of the notch and break
  10. wind the wrong way? then you just wind the spring into the winder in the opposite side going clockwise or counter clockwise. and transferring it to correct size do you mean going from smaller winder to larger winder? when you say size do you mean size of the arbor on the winder so the hole end is shaped right? if thats the case then that should not dictate wether you use a smaller winder. you should select your winder based on the size of the barrel not the arbor. most mainsprings dont have the correct shape at the end to fit the arbor in the watch, so you have to shape it. you can use a pair of wire beading pliers to shape the hole end once its in the barrel. some of these pliers are made of nylon so you dont have to worry about marking or burring the mainspring or barrel. also if there was a 1.1 in there before and you replaced it with a 1.2 now your seeing signs of rubbing then i would say there was a reason it may have had the 1.1. and you should replace it with the same. LAST NOTE: SEE MY PIC looking at the picture it looks as if the notch on the wall of the barrel is at the bottom and the break is against it coming from its left side, and then looking at the hole end its in the clockwise direction. if iam right on my observation then the MS has been installed in the wrong direction, hence the slipping. the MS should wind in the opposite direction of the notch on the barrel wall. as you can see with may arrows that there is nothing stopping the MS from sliding against the wall of the barrel.
  11. when you try and put the mainspring in the barrel by hand and you warp it. causing it cone upwards when wound
  12. wow nice job! see iam lazy i would have just replaced the wheel, plus i dont have a lathe so that too
  13. something doesnt look right on the outer most coil. did you use a mainspring winder to install the MS? re-winding does mean letting it down i would think but how are you unwinding it? your not just simply releasing the click are you. ok this is what i suggest: take barrel out and remove lid. turn the arbor with a driver and watch the coils wind up, while keeping barrel between your fingers on a flat surface. you will see if its slipping right away. NOW i think this IS your issue: if the mainspring starts to pop out as you are winding then thats most likely due to an improper install, and when the lid is on the coils are rubbing up against the barrel lid adding friction and resistance to the MS causing loss in the power which equals Low amplitude. check that and get back to us
  14. i wouldnt know but couldnt you call cousins and ask, they should know for sure
  15. haha i love this man, my response was a little more cut throat lol. but only thing that concerns me though is the beat error nuce. would it be so high or any at all if it was just low power on the train from winding down? and wouldnt these extreme readings be seen within a short time frame before watch finally came to a stop? just spit balling here never really had this issue since i always know to wind my watches when timing, so not sure what to expect under such circumstances.
  16. wow! Well since you said it was recently serviced and giving the watch repairer the benefit of the doubt that he is a pro who knows what he is doing. my guess is watch is magnetized but normally that would yield + seconds with low so i dont know i dont want to bash a fellow watch repairer without due process. if you have a demagnetizer you can demag the balance and the movement separate. if you dont have a "demagger" then you can check it by passing the watch around a compass (do this first either way). if the needle moves off of north then watch is magnetized and any watch repairer can demag a watch within 2 minutes and most likely wont cost much if anything. plus services and overhauls usually have a 1 year warranty. now if it is not magnetized then either wrong mainspring was installed or he changed a hairspring and just didnt bother to set/vibrate the hairspring in beat. cracked a jewel setting a bridge, many things could have gone wrong. and in that case take it back and demand he fix it.
  17. yea good idea nuce! force power through the mainspring. best way to do this i would think is fully wind it then push on the ratchet wheel with pegwood and hold it, dont let it seat back into the click. see if amp goes up and then see if it drops when you let it go and ratchet sits back into the click.
  18. you have friction somewhere, most likely due to dirt and/or dry pivots/mainspring. this watch needs a full service. new mainspring, cleaning and proper oiling. the watch is still slightly out of beat a little more work and it will be good to go
  19. yea sometimes i wish i could just put myself in a white plastic bubble. davy: you can get individual seitz jewels from ofrei.com. they have a 1.10mm they are $7.20 US
  20. they look like to pieces in he picture, doesnt look like the pinion was machined out of the same stock as the shaft, i know have had few movements that where loose or maybe it was the whole shaft that was loose and just thought it was the pinion, and yes the center wheel pinion is 100% friction fit that i know for sure, but only on 3/0s and up i believe JD you can buy a spare movement very cheap on ebay, prob less than $10, just save yourself the headache and get a new wheel man!
  21. you should be able to remove the pinion from the shaft, but it might be hard to friction fit the new one. so not sure whats better to remove pinion or entire shaft because normally i dont do this i just replace the wheel since i have a ton of spare parts. any reason why you cant just replace the whole wheel? i may have a spare if you dont have one
  22. I agree with riveted pinions, they are risky to punch same as riveted staffs. but 3rd wheel is not riveted on these waltham pocket watch movements, only the center wheel is, i know because i work on these a lot, sometimes i even get some waltham/elgin that have loose pinions on a few occasions pinions have actually fallen out of the wheel. and the leaves are friction fit to the pinion. so it should be able to come off without punching out the entire pinion. maybe he should try penetrating oil and try gently twisting it off before hitting up the stakes. i would like to know the size of the movement though i think 12s 18s may be riveted not sure but iam sure 6s and down isnt
  23. best way is to knock it out using a staking set the same way you would remove a balance staff. you can try and use a canon pinion/hand remover tool if you can get the lever under it. but you have to place the the wheel on a staking block with smallest hole you can fit the top pivot in. but these are friction fit but these watches are old so some penetrating oil may be needed for this process. if you have a spare wheel why not just replace the whole wheel? what size is the movement?
  24. i dont think its a matter of using penetrating oil to loosen screws its more the blade of the screwdriver not fitting properly in the slot. i know a cylinder will give me more torque but my main focus is having a blade that fits properly, obviously many pros use the bergeon drivers and they remove jewel screws but i just dont understand how. i need to somehow upload a video. these screws have such thin and shallow slots. it like the blade needs to have a knife edge to fit.
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