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Bruce Lee today 6139-6012.

Before we loose track of what is and isn’t right Donald De Carlo in his book which I have all of them states as Kalnag said. As a professional WATCHMAKER not repairer who built watches for a living came up with the theory so who are we Amateur repair men to disprove his theory, you might as well challenge the theory’s of George Daniels or Henry B Freid. The basic fact remains that the working space for the spring is wrong. So at this point Willow has a clock that works but the spring winds short (not enough space). The spring was broken when he got it and naturally got a new spring which according to the old spring measurements was almost correct and should work, but no not enough on the wind. Therefore my theory is that the wrong spring was in the clock and probably the reason that it broke being constantly being wound to capacity all the time. So no matter proving or disproving the theory there is not enough space for the spring to operate correctly and is if not corrected going to break again or damage the clock.

Okay, this one's done. I had to...uh, you experts may want to look away...I took the staking set to those lovely pivot holes. Staking Tools and How to Use Them declares an economical movement deserves an economical repair and this one definitely seemed to fit that sentiment. After a few rounds with the hammer the train was rolling freely and without fuss. After letting it run a few days after assembly it sat for a while before I put it on the graph. Amplitude was a little low at a 46 lift angle (is that angle correct?), in the 220s but it didn't move too much in the hanging positions. Beat error was good - 0.1 to 0.3 so I adjusted the time and buttoned it up. In the wild it is so far surprisingly steady for an old chap...

Hi Waggy Sounds like you have a cannon pinion problem it may be loose or not seated properly.

That’s great , glad it worked for you, A lot depends on getting enough space to nip up the crown. I think the problem is that the nib that fits into the crown wheel is a tad too long and you just can’t get the clearance right, but no matter it worked. Cheers

It’s simple: The 1/3 rd rule applies to the radius or diameter not to the area

UPDATE: Brilliant. The Loctite won't arrive until tomorrow but the stem is fully functional in the finger tight state for the moment so I'm calling it...

As we would say in the UK, that is utter **BLEEP**. Plain, slightly warm, tap water is fine. I set my u/s to 40C, and there is no build up of pressure in the jars. You could see the lid bulge if it started to pressurise. If you just have the tops sat on loosely, there was no noticeable smell. (I was censored ! All I said was b*ll*cks )

Hi Willow , I am still of the opinion that rage spring is too long, the spring you removed may not ne the one it started out with. Just to clarify some points, did the clock work when you got it, if so did you wind it up ? And if you did how many turns did it take. We assume you dismantled and cleaned the clock, why did you change the spring , broken or set. Did you physically check the spring size with the new on before fitting. As it does not comply with the 1/3 rd rule the more I think the one in the clock was not correct. The rule is that an unwound spring in the barrel occupy one third, the center arbour. The second third and the spring operating space the final third. As mentioned by Old Hippy an over strong spring can cause damage especially to the operating surfaces of the wheels but also on the pivots and holes. It would be prudent to remove the spring and measure the Barrel following the one third rule. As its a Winterhalder / Hofmeier. (1910 to 1930) there is a possibility of finding the correct spring.

@Steve1811uk Not Really bought as a none runner from america of ebay came with wrong tach ring and glass no glass gasket and I think a replacment dial and a seiko 5 strap so got a period appropriate replacement. All the movement needed was a good service and clean as luck had it I had a spare tach ring had to touch up the hands a little and re loom and replaced all gaskets now everything works as it should chrono flys back about a second out but I can live with that think I will replace pushers at some point through they are a bit bent. Not my doing it came without the back even screwed on just thrown in the bag.

Someone tried to open it with a cheap case wrench and made some deep scratches...oh, you mean the watch's history, don't you?

Any back story for this watch?

I use Elma WF Pro cleaner and Elma Suprol Pro rinse (and IPA) in an ultrasonic in a small room. I did use naphtha/isopropanol, but wished I'd switched to Elma sooner. They do clean significantly better than naphtha, and recommend using them (or equivalent L&R) - but they do smell more. I clean in a 60W ultrasonic, heated to about 40C, though the cleaners work well at room temp. I did use open beakers, and the smell was quite bad - I have a fan blowing and window open. The rinse is much worse fumes than the cleaner. I recently switched to jam jars, first with the lid sat loosely on - very little smell, but then tried sealing the lid. There was no build up of pressure, and of course, little smell. You will get some smell from just handling the chemicals. But with a fan and open window, I have no problems. The IPA smell is no problem I use the small brass/gauze containers to clean the parts in, sat in the plastic tray shown (all from Cousins). This just fits nicely in wide jars, and makes putting them in and out of the solutions easy. I have 4 jars - cleaner, 2 x rinse, IPA I do 5mins in cleaner solution, 2 x rinse solutions of 2 mins each, then 30sec in IPA. All squeaky clean. Kept in jam jars, there is no residual smell.

If its loose you can tighten it using a pair of blunted nail clippers. If you check the the pinion there will be a small dimple somewhere on the shaft this will need compressing a tiny teeny bit more it doesn't need much I usually put a piece of brass wire down the hole and give it a very small squeeze at the dimple then try it on the movement if all is good job done if its still loose give it a bit more but remember it doesn't take much pressure.

To be honest I find them better than the dedicated "Seiko" mainsprings which tend to have too large a hole in the centre for the arbour so you end up having to try and close it up (and risk breaking it) so the arbour will 'bite'. All you need to do with the ETA version is remember to flip them over when you install (coloured side of disc down instead of up) and they seem to be a better fit for the arbour so no modification required.

What type of clock is it. The 1/3rd rule is the easy way of knowing if the spring is too long, which is what it sounds like as you can only wind it a few times which can cause wear if in fact the spring is too strong.

My advice is Do not take the Diafix springs out...lol. Incredibly difficult to install. Watchmaker level 100 stuff. Should they be taken out to clean the jewels? Absolutely, and by someone with great talent and skill to re-assemble. Mark makes it look easy on one of his videos. Others have fabricated very small tools to help the assembly process. To each his own way however.

But a beep in both directions ? Thanks for the offer and help. It only cost me £27 including postage, so no great loss, and not worth trying to change the chip. It only lasted an hour, but has given me hours of entertainment.

They can just be difficult to get re-installed sometimes.

Limit ‘junior’ model w/Revue cal 56. A little pricey for 404 but it was a no reserve auction non-runner I won for 8 GBP. The mis-threaded case back was fixed with a glued flange nut. Cleaned up and new main later it is running fine but a little fast. I may fiddle a bit with it later but the wife wants it and may not care it’s a minute off by days end…

I had the same dilemma with my cal 565. I ended up putting the tiniest smear of oil (9010) under the spring. I hate those springs - very easy to accidently bend, and then break, trying to get the correct pressure on the pinion. And of course, being Omega, not cheap to replace. Too little pressure and the second hand judders, too much and it kills you amplitude.

Haha that sounds like a challenge! Well, the good news is the bridge with the diafix settings has a broken jewel in it anyway, so I'm not really planning to use it for anything. I kinda want to have a go at removing/installing the diafix springs now... Ah man, well hopefully the one I ordered does alright, the final bill came in and it was $60 all up. I could have gotten 4x ETA mainsprings for that price... Definitely the plan if all goes wrong!