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Showing content with the highest reputation on 09/14/16 in all areas
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2 points
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OK, so me and Mrs H did Christmas day with the family, and then we did Boxing day with the family, and then we were granted a day off so got to relax, and for me that meant I had the chance to tackle a little project that I had acquired as part of a job lot from a long retired watchmaker that had been sitting around in a shed for about 35 years (the job lot, not the watchmaker). Pocket watches are not usually my thing although I do own and use a couple. Orphaned pocket watch movements are even less my thing; but this little baby was in such a state that I couldn't resist the challenge. I don't think I have ever attempted to resurrect anything in quite such a sorry state as this before but it wasn't all bad. The balance was free and with sufficiently little end shake to hint that the pivots were not broken. However, the accumulation of dirt and dried grease obscured just about everything else. The inner coils of the hair spring also looked to be completely filled in with rust/gunk. With the balance cock and balance removed things got a little more interesting. Underneath the grime is a rather nice English Lever escapement with cap jewels on both the pallet and escape wheel pivots. A good sign, but I need to let down any power in the mainspring before I go any further, which means flipping it over and removing the dial as the keyless works are dial side. Not quite so bad under here as the dial has kept the worst of the dirt away. You can see too that both ends of the pallet and escape wheel pivots are capped, and the click spring is a proper cut steel affair, not wire. There is worrying evidence of rust on the steel work though. With the power let down the pallet and escape wheel cock is removed and you can now see the English Lever escapement in all its (rather grubby) glory. What a mess, but through the gunge there are just little hints of quality watchmaking peeping through; the thickness of the 3/4 top plate, and the cut and form of the teeth on the wheels. The top plate comes off taking the entire train and barrel with it as the pivots are seized in their bearings. The main plate is a mess. The under side of the top plate with the train still in place. The barrel has vacated its bearing revealing rust. Not a good sign but it could be worse. The train now removed from the top plate and dropped back into the main plate for a reference shot. The set lever and stem retaining bridge do not look healthy. Again though the set lever spring is cut steel, not wire. Oh yuk!!! The main plate now stripped. The barrel lid, with another nice touch; Geneva stop work, designed to only allow the central portion of the springs torque curve to be utilised thus reducing isochronism. Main plate, top plate, and escapement cock ready for cleaning. Ok, so whilst I was stripping all of this down, the hair spring, removed from the balance has been sitting in some Cola. The result is that the rust has softened and with a little careful tweezer work with a pair of Dumont #5's, most of it has been dislodged. The terminal curve of the Breguet over coil is badly out of shape due to a mishap when trying to unpin it from the rusted steel stud. I'll sort that out later. For now it's back into the pop to see if I can get those coils a little cleaner. Everything cleaned and ready for reassembly. I have a couple of spare jars for my cleaning machine and when I renew the cleaning solutions, the old stuff is kept in the spare jars. Any really heavily soiled movements get a "pre-wash" in the old chemistry so as to prolong the life of the new. With this watch everything was washed in the old gear and then very carefully gone over with peg wood, a G/F scratch brush, and tooth paste on a cotton bud in order to remove all of the staining that the bath didn't touch. All the jewels, bearings, and pinion leaves were also pegged out. Then it all went for another cycle through the old stuff before going through a normal cycle through the fresh chemistry. Main plate dial side prior to reassembly. And train side. Scrubbed up quite well I think. Stem, winding pinion, clutch, and stem retaining bridge reinstalled. Set lever and spring back in place. I haven't removed all of the rust pitting from the stem bridge and the set lever as it was too deep and to take it out would alter the shape too much, but it has been stabilised. The reassembled barrel and Geneva Stop work. I have reused the old main spring for now but made a note of its dimensions in case I choose to replace it. Another (gratuitous) shot of the Stop work as I just love it :-) Barrel and train back in place and things are starting to look fairly healthy. The top plate goes on. Quite a difference compared to the strip down shot from the same angle. The keyless works back in place dial side. And the balance, with reshaped and re-pinned hair spring goes back into place. After about half a dozen attempts to adjust the beat, removing the balance from the cock and turning the hair spring collet each time, and she comes to life!! Everything back in place dial side. And the cleaned up dial goes back on, complete with (broken) hands. And if you ignore the rate error for now (I need to re-pin the hair spring a little shorter), it's actually not a bad performance. As I said at the outset this was a challenge for challenge sake. I really enjoyed doing it and have learned a little bit about quality English watchmaking from the days when we were really rather good at it. I have absolutely no idea what to do with it now though although I want to try and find a bit more about it. Here is what I know; The name on the dial is T Donkin. There was a T Donkin watchmaker in Scarborough but I have no dates (yet) I'm guessing somewhere between about 1890 and 1910. It is a 19 ligne, 19 jewel English Lever escapement movement with capped balance, pallet, and escape wheel pivots (diamond on at least the balance top pivot). It has a screwed, split bi-metalic compensating balance, Breguet over coil hair spring, and Geneva Stop work on the barrel, and a 16200 train. A technical spec that suggests that it was of a reasonably high grade for its day. I still have a couple of issues to address though, the most problematic of which is that it has a slightly bent balance staff pivot. I decided not to tackle this on this occasion as the risk of breaking it whilst trying to straighten it was too great and I desperately wanted to see it running, but I may have a go in the future. I will re-pin the hair spring at the same time to get the rate up to where I can regulate it properly; it is currently about 25 minutes a day slow which is way beyond the range of the regulator. I also need to re-attach one of the dial feet and source some new hands. Then of course there is the question of recasing it. If you have made it this far then thank you for indulging me :-) I hope you have enjoyed it. If anyone can shed any more light on this little old lady I would be very grateful.1 point
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You have to be a few short if you part with your money for this. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/grandfather-clock-parts-/222250202196?hash=item33bf24f454:g:ipAAAOSw3YNXX8Cx1 point
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I was able to visit this important fair which closed Sept. 10th, and wanted to share my impression and something of what I saw in a short report, but quickly realized that the task is beyond me, so I'll give just few highlights related to aspects that are of my interest, that is watch movement manufacturers and tools suppliers. Please excuse the poor quality of my pictures, even if using a good camera I couldn't do better than that. That was my first time in the city, and I was impressed by its organization and ease of transit. Budget was helped having been pre-registered for free admission and airfare partially paid with travel credit. Overall it has been a very pleasant and interesting visit that I would recommend to anyone. Getting to the fair is extremely easy, take the metro Island line to Wan Chai, and walking the pedestrian bridge to the exposition center. Weather was rain showers, nothing like the windstorms of the previous days, so I was lucky to avoid that. The fair is as very large, divided on two floors and three sections. In short, the most space was taken by Chinese watch brands, large an small, which names are virtually unknown to West, or event to the East. The style choices are also much different from what is generally liked and discusses on watch forums, with the large majority being fashion quartz watches. It was very time consuming to at just walk by all the booths, and only rarely I found necessary to stop for a second look. There were also many European brands which are clearly made in China, one is Obaku, which for its general design lines one could confuse with Skagen and many others. The Chinese also manufacture vintage inspired watches and practical automatic watches, but at least in my opinion there is always something "not right" in them. However it was nice to see some of the brands that are on Aliexpress, like e.g. the Gotop which had a small stand but in my opinion come with simple design that is better than most others. Even if the only practical use of these is marketing gifts, it's nice to have the business card of their sales manager. All the stands and booths gave a kind reception to any visitor and were available for a frank discussion of prices, minimum q.ty, etc. However compared to the fairs of other industries which I've visited in the past, there was not the gloom and abundance of shows or free gadgets. One of the booths of my interested was the one of Time Module / Seiko, of which I'm not posting any picture because these came out even worse than the others - I found later that I could not focus well, either in auto or manual mode. I had a nice conversation with one of their sales, a dynamic young Japanese which illustrated me their sweeping second quartz line, in short these are not suited yet for all designs due the lack of a date indicator, which is being developed. He indicated that that quartz makes about 80% of their production, but the best of their production is with the NE series. I was pleased to learn that they make all spare parts available (except the main plate) and that there is new product development on the mechanical movements, which are sold as being made in Japan (that is a subject often debated on forums, but I avoided grilling him on the matter). I missed the determination to visit the Miyota / Citizen stand, but that is a good reason to come back for it the next year! My other area of interest was the manufacturers of watch components, of which I've seen quite a few, but not in an outrageous number. The quality, level, and presentation of their products and factories was excellent. The ones with the most prominent spaces were Peacock and Sea-Gull, with the first doing a much better job of welcoming and informing visitors. But since I'm interested in thin movements, I'll be more likely to come back to the latter. Moving on to tools manufacturers / distributors, all the major ones where there, and there is always something to see and learn about. For me it was the Witschi "dry" pressure tester. I immediately asked how would I know from where the watch leaks, the answer is that the main purpose of the tool (including the pathetic LCD version) is to give a pass/fail response and a warning about NOT placing it in the traditional machine if the leak is too large. I was also told that a new version of the traditional timegrapher is about to be released, with a much, ,much better display, which I did not photographed also because I'll never buy it:) The Bergeon stand was setup very well, with their nice work benches including the flagship motorized one, A*F had much smaller boot but their European staff was more interested in finding a good restaurant for dinner than receiving visitors, so I moved on. For the lovers of cleanliness some Indian exhibitor proudly showed this: However, for the humble watch repairer / hobbyist the peak of the fair was probably Watchme booth, a prominent Ebay seller. He was selling directly, so I got myself a small set of extra tools, of which I could probably have done without, but is the expereince that counts, and they made a nice shopping souvenir. Thomas is a really nice guy with good beer taste, and before I could finish the word "discount" he already had knocked down the price a bit. Not photographed, he makes a clever press / case opener combo tool, which I really liked except for the price, which in my opinion is way too deep into Bergeon territory. For the major tooling needs there was a small number of exhibitors, for example this one is for laser etching casebacks. My kudos however go to the Swiss manufacturer which installed two functioning CNC milling machines to demonstrate machining of plates and cases. I was told that ETA's movement sales restrictions are good news for them, as it's boosting production by competitors. Finally in the dedicated section there were the "better" brands, including a dark gallery of few expensive Swiss one, of which I recognized only Blancpain, and gladly didn't picture. Some more aficionado brands and the "independent" watchmakers confined all together: I also skipped the Invicta booth after learning that Eva Longoria had failed to show up, and being these the last hours of the fair everyone started packing up, which should not be allowed, I was also tired, so rather than chasing runners I crashed on a bench for a while before going for a well deserved street food feast and flight out. Hope you have enjoyed this.1 point
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That makes up for all those days when after many hours of disassembly, cleaning, searching for parts, reassembly and oiling you get a screen full of snow. I struck gold recently after servicing a 100 year old Omega pocket watch which came to me with a broken mainspring. First run on the timegrapher after tweaking the regulator I got this... Prepared myself for many iterations of removing the balance to twist the collet round, imagine my surprise when after the first adjustment I got this Sadly it really needs a new balance staff as things are not so good pendant up, but it made my day!1 point
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I would think there are many who don't know what they are or what they are used for.1 point
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Unbelievable what some people will try to sell.............do you think anyone will be crazy enough to place a bid?? A scrap merchant perhaps??1 point
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I have just spent an hour reading & viewing your post. It was the best hour I have spent at the computer in an age. Thanks for your great step-by-step, truly inspiring.1 point
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Lubricant such a silicone grease etc might well help but change the seal Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk1 point
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Check that in another thread yesterday someone ha resolved a leak from the pusher simply using another type of lubricant. Certain things are easier that what they seems.1 point
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Depending on the particular movement, I sometimes screw in the bridge screws a couple of turns once the pinions are seated. This sometimes helps to keep the bridge parallel/flush when pressing the bridge down.1 point
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The lower pusher is leaking slightly. I have not worked on this calibre but a new seal I expect will be the answer. Until then do not use in water.1 point
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I don't know, in my book, it doesn't matter what you use the watch for when in the water. Swimming can generate "instant" pressures that exceed the rating of the watch...In this case, your watch rating might be OK for more than swimming but the fact that its water tightness has been compromised and any humidity inside a watch invites disaster, I'd still sent it to a pro for a full service...you are saving pennies now, you will spend dollars later!1 point
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If you're fixing watches on a daily basis then you'll get the hang of it, or at least know when to take special note of certain screws. BUT for the hobbyist its a different matter. Typically, a watchmaker would look closely at the parts as he removes them, particularly a watch which is not so common. For example to very similar screws holding the same part may be of different lengths, the watchmaker would take note of this and remember it when he assembles the watch a few hours later. A hobbyist, on the other hand, may only come back to the watch a few days (or weeks!) later, by which time he may wonder 'now which hole did the shorter screw go' or even forget that there were two different screws. For example, I have an Eterna on my desk half-done for the last two weeks! Also, a hobbyist may not be able to have a permanent workspace...your wordesk may be the dining table or writing desk, requiring you to pack up everything once you're done for the day. Chances of getting things mixed up is high. Knowing this, the hobbyist can take steps to avoid problems.. keep parts in batches, ie train wheels with screws and wheel. Barrel bridge with barrel, click,ratchet wheel etc. small tins are best. Hope this helps Anil1 point
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WOW thanks for sharing jdm, anytime you can travel and enjoy watches or the industry, it's a plus! I saw a blip on advert, (probably because most of the 'surfing' on this pc is about watches) about this show and wondered about it. Appreciate the perspective. I met Eva Longoria once, and told her "I'd like to see more of you", then by a strange circumstance we met again, this time I told her, "that's not what I meant"!1 point
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I have not done this yet but according to De Carels book this is the traditional way for main spring cleaning:1 point
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Hello Stian, first of all there not stupid questions. It is experience when it comes to screws. You start off by keeping them together with the parts. With a little practice you will soon get to know what part or parts go with which screw or screws. You never clean the glass or case in the cleaning machine. I used to wash both in soapy hot water and dry with a cloth. If the glass has scratch marks and there not to deep you can remove them with brasso. There are things on the market that you can also use. The mainspring can be cleaned in the cleaning machine. Complicated watches are taken apart in an order depending on the movement. You have far more to take apart and far more screws of different size. In fact all watches are taken apart in an order this is something you will find out with practise. You normally find the train wheels underneath the complicated works. Watch dials are very delicate and should be handled with care and treated as so. I used to use a clean very soft bench brush and brush very carefully and use a blower to blow the dust and tiny hairs away. Most dials are transfers and with old dials you will see the transfer peeling, be extremely careful if you come across this. Gaskets perish and you should always check, check for a good fit and shape. If it looks bad replace it. Never put the gasket through the cleaning machine.1 point
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While reassembling the movement I took pictures as you saw above, but also a video that was split in 4 parts. The first part is this one. Enjoy.1 point
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Had purchased a seized up 100ish old Illinois Pocket Watch. Looked like this It was not running at all, so I took Vin's advice and removed the balance and the palate fork to see if the gear train would run. Of course I first let down the mainspring. The wheel train would not run freely so a disassembled the complete watch: I then cleaned the movement plates, gears and wheels in lighter fluid. I also cleaned the jewels with a tooth pick (sharpened). I did not remove the keyless springs as they were fine, but they did go into the lighter fluid and I did wipe everything with a fine paint brush. Following the cleaning, I 9010 and D5 oiled the jewels etc. And used the thick stuff on the keyless work. Then I built the watch up from the mainspring, 2nd, 3rd gear plates: to the 4th gear and escapement. Then I checked the free run of the gear train (after oiling ). It worked like a charm. Finally I put back the cleaned palate fork and lowered the balance cock into place. I still had a hard time moving so I removed the cap jewel from the balance and cleaned and oiled the balance jewel. Wow, what a difference. The balance amplified was 310 and the watch was frictionless. I put back the cap jewel (fires adding a very small amount of 9010 on the inside flat part of the cap jewel). The watch is now running really well. Next job is to find good hands and the current hands and completely rusted.1 point
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Here's the set of hones that I use on a regular basis, they are especially good for keeping a good edge on tungsten carbide and high speed steel lathe tools. Having the plastic handle built in allows you to use it like a file. The grades I use are medium, fine and super fine. PS. They are great for dressing the ends of stems to achieve the correct length after I have snipped off the major excess.1 point