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Showing content with the highest reputation on 09/13/16 in all areas
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Have been reading with interest the threads about watch cleaning machines and I thought I'd post a pic of mine that I purchased on eBay a few years back, old L&R Master, it was in a pretty unloved state when I bought it, motor ran, heater did not and paint finish was all chipped, worn off and just looked not nice, I paid $130 for it as I knew it could be brought back to life with a little love and attention. I re wired the whole unit (original looked downright hazardous, threadbare fabric insulation) and rubbed down paintwork and sprayed unit and jar lids with grey hammerite paint, replaced the bulb inside the red display switch and the heater was operating, (the builb acts as the fuse for the heating element). Spent under $20 in Home Depot for everything that I needed. Hoping this might help someone who has been looking to get a machine, it really was a pleasing job fixing it up and it's a great little machine that I now love dearly.4 points
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My take, for what it's worth; In "Practical watch repairing", De Carle says parts should be kept together as you disassemble the watch, so as not to mix screws up etc. In Mark's videos however, he seems to put all the screws together. Is this simply a matter of how skilled one is, e.g capable of distinguishing various screws? Recognising which screw goes where comes with experience not just with watchmaking in general but with a specific movement. Do a lot of AS1950/1's and you soon know exactly where everything goes on an AS1950/1 but you may still have to think a bit with an ETA2824 if you don't do so many of those. That being said I still put the screws back into the hole they came out of but that's mainly because I'm paranoid about them going missing in the cleaning machine. Does one ever run the case and the glass through the cleaning machine? I clean the case, crystal (unless I'm replacing it), case back, and bracelet in a US cleaning bath using (of all things) supermarket own brand budget general purpose household cleaner diluted at about 1 to 1 with hot water (movements go into a rotary cleaning machine using L&R solutions). It is surprisingly efficient at dealing with wrist cheese accumulations, cheap, and I have never encountered any adverse effects. Particularly stubborn deposits also get a helping hand with a scrub using a tooth brush and washing up liquid. How is the main spring cleaned? I guess it does not fit in the cleaning machine? Goes into the bottom basket of my Elma. Is it a general rule that any complication is removed first, simply to get to the train wheels? The sequence of disassembly is partly imposed (some things have to be removed just to get at others), partly common sense (removing delicate assemblies like the balance/cock assembly early to avoid damaging while handling the movement), and partly preference. With auto's I usually remove the winding rotor and sometimes the auto bridge as well before de-casing the movement because I don't like handling the movement with a slightly unstable heavy weight moving around on it. Dials and calendar wheels come off before the movement goes upside down into a movement holder so as to avoid scratching delicate cosmetic finishes. I think everybody has their own approach and preferences. Is the dial at all cleaned in any way or only blown for dust? Golden rule with dials is to do as little as you can get away with. The more aggressive the cleaning the more risk of expensive damage, and a vintage dial with "patina" is (almost) always more acceptable than a perfectly "clean" dial with scratches or some of the printing missing. (My opinion). What is the general rule for whether or not a gasket is placed in after cleaning? Simply only if there was one already? Unless it is obviously in perfect condition (no cracks, no perishing, still nice and elastic, not stretched, clean, etc) I will always try to replace a gasket. Gaskets are cheap, water damage isn't. Don't forget to use a silicon gasket grease too as this helps to improve the water resistance and eases movement of sealing surfaces against the gasket, reducing the risk of distortion. As OH said, there is no such thing as a stupid question, an enquiring mind is a gift (or in a small child a burden... for the parents!!)2 points
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Hello Stian, first of all there not stupid questions. It is experience when it comes to screws. You start off by keeping them together with the parts. With a little practice you will soon get to know what part or parts go with which screw or screws. You never clean the glass or case in the cleaning machine. I used to wash both in soapy hot water and dry with a cloth. If the glass has scratch marks and there not to deep you can remove them with brasso. There are things on the market that you can also use. The mainspring can be cleaned in the cleaning machine. Complicated watches are taken apart in an order depending on the movement. You have far more to take apart and far more screws of different size. In fact all watches are taken apart in an order this is something you will find out with practise. You normally find the train wheels underneath the complicated works. Watch dials are very delicate and should be handled with care and treated as so. I used to use a clean very soft bench brush and brush very carefully and use a blower to blow the dust and tiny hairs away. Most dials are transfers and with old dials you will see the transfer peeling, be extremely careful if you come across this. Gaskets perish and you should always check, check for a good fit and shape. If it looks bad replace it. Never put the gasket through the cleaning machine.2 points
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I was able to visit this important fair which closed Sept. 10th, and wanted to share my impression and something of what I saw in a short report, but quickly realized that the task is beyond me, so I'll give just few highlights related to aspects that are of my interest, that is watch movement manufacturers and tools suppliers. Please excuse the poor quality of my pictures, even if using a good camera I couldn't do better than that. That was my first time in the city, and I was impressed by its organization and ease of transit. Budget was helped having been pre-registered for free admission and airfare partially paid with travel credit. Overall it has been a very pleasant and interesting visit that I would recommend to anyone. Getting to the fair is extremely easy, take the metro Island line to Wan Chai, and walking the pedestrian bridge to the exposition center. Weather was rain showers, nothing like the windstorms of the previous days, so I was lucky to avoid that. The fair is as very large, divided on two floors and three sections. In short, the most space was taken by Chinese watch brands, large an small, which names are virtually unknown to West, or event to the East. The style choices are also much different from what is generally liked and discusses on watch forums, with the large majority being fashion quartz watches. It was very time consuming to at just walk by all the booths, and only rarely I found necessary to stop for a second look. There were also many European brands which are clearly made in China, one is Obaku, which for its general design lines one could confuse with Skagen and many others. The Chinese also manufacture vintage inspired watches and practical automatic watches, but at least in my opinion there is always something "not right" in them. However it was nice to see some of the brands that are on Aliexpress, like e.g. the Gotop which had a small stand but in my opinion come with simple design that is better than most others. Even if the only practical use of these is marketing gifts, it's nice to have the business card of their sales manager. All the stands and booths gave a kind reception to any visitor and were available for a frank discussion of prices, minimum q.ty, etc. However compared to the fairs of other industries which I've visited in the past, there was not the gloom and abundance of shows or free gadgets. One of the booths of my interested was the one of Time Module / Seiko, of which I'm not posting any picture because these came out even worse than the others - I found later that I could not focus well, either in auto or manual mode. I had a nice conversation with one of their sales, a dynamic young Japanese which illustrated me their sweeping second quartz line, in short these are not suited yet for all designs due the lack of a date indicator, which is being developed. He indicated that that quartz makes about 80% of their production, but the best of their production is with the NE series. I was pleased to learn that they make all spare parts available (except the main plate) and that there is new product development on the mechanical movements, which are sold as being made in Japan (that is a subject often debated on forums, but I avoided grilling him on the matter). I missed the determination to visit the Miyota / Citizen stand, but that is a good reason to come back for it the next year! My other area of interest was the manufacturers of watch components, of which I've seen quite a few, but not in an outrageous number. The quality, level, and presentation of their products and factories was excellent. The ones with the most prominent spaces were Peacock and Sea-Gull, with the first doing a much better job of welcoming and informing visitors. But since I'm interested in thin movements, I'll be more likely to come back to the latter. Moving on to tools manufacturers / distributors, all the major ones where there, and there is always something to see and learn about. For me it was the Witschi "dry" pressure tester. I immediately asked how would I know from where the watch leaks, the answer is that the main purpose of the tool (including the pathetic LCD version) is to give a pass/fail response and a warning about NOT placing it in the traditional machine if the leak is too large. I was also told that a new version of the traditional timegrapher is about to be released, with a much, ,much better display, which I did not photographed also because I'll never buy it:) The Bergeon stand was setup very well, with their nice work benches including the flagship motorized one, A*F had much smaller boot but their European staff was more interested in finding a good restaurant for dinner than receiving visitors, so I moved on. For the lovers of cleanliness some Indian exhibitor proudly showed this: However, for the humble watch repairer / hobbyist the peak of the fair was probably Watchme booth, a prominent Ebay seller. He was selling directly, so I got myself a small set of extra tools, of which I could probably have done without, but is the expereince that counts, and they made a nice shopping souvenir. Thomas is a really nice guy with good beer taste, and before I could finish the word "discount" he already had knocked down the price a bit. Not photographed, he makes a clever press / case opener combo tool, which I really liked except for the price, which in my opinion is way too deep into Bergeon territory. For the major tooling needs there was a small number of exhibitors, for example this one is for laser etching casebacks. My kudos however go to the Swiss manufacturer which installed two functioning CNC milling machines to demonstrate machining of plates and cases. I was told that ETA's movement sales restrictions are good news for them, as it's boosting production by competitors. Finally in the dedicated section there were the "better" brands, including a dark gallery of few expensive Swiss one, of which I recognized only Blancpain, and gladly didn't picture. Some more aficionado brands and the "independent" watchmakers confined all together: I also skipped the Invicta booth after learning that Eva Longoria had failed to show up, and being these the last hours of the fair everyone started packing up, which should not be allowed, I was also tired, so rather than chasing runners I crashed on a bench for a while before going for a well deserved street food feast and flight out. Hope you have enjoyed this.1 point
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Hello all, New to the group here and saying hello. Been a watch enthusiast all my life and have a modest collection of watches. Just starting out in watch / clock repair as a hobby and found this site by researching timegraphers. I live in Central Florida outside of Tampa. Looking forward to learning more and more about this fascinating art of watchmaking.1 point
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Hello All. .I am from Central Texas and new to this forum..I am a NAWCC member and teach beginner students basic pocket watch repair at our local chapter. I am a hobbiest at best since I have a day job but want to share my successes and pitfalls. I tell my students where all the good websites to visit. Mark, your "You Tube Watch Repair Channel" is the greatest !. I always looking forward for your next video to learn and to share. Keep them coming.1 point
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Good evening everybody my name is David and this is my first post. I'm a big fan of Marks YouTube Channel and keep up to date with all his videos. The most informative and detailed, easy to follow walkthroughs that I have came across. So, Mark, if you read this, thank you and well done! I am in the industry and have been for years now. I started by working for a well known high street watch repair chain (not sure if I'm allowed to mention the name) and after working with them and working my way up I decided to open my own watch repair shop in Nottingham City Centre. We've been running for almost a year now and going very well. I've attached a couple of before and after pictures of a recent repair to an Avia watch we have completed for a very satisfied customer. Probably my favourite repair to date purely because of the customers tearful reaction on collection. The best thing about this industry is the sentimental attachment people hold to their watches. What do you all think? I am always looking to broaden my knowledge which I have noticed this forum is very useful for. I can also offer any advice and help with anything that I have experience in. Please feel free to reply to this message and say hi. David1 point
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Hello David and welcome, It is good to see someone giving the customer a quality service. Cheers, Vic1 point
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At about 5 minutes and 50 seconds into the video below they show finishing the plates then how the girl puts decoration on and even one of the templates they used. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys4ChOWYNy8 In the next links they show a variety of techniques and you learn some new terminology like GENEVA WAVES (COTES DE GENEVE) and CIRCULAR GRAINING (PERLAGE) http://www.thehourlounge.com/en/vacheron-constantin-articles/movement-finish-true-mark-haute-horlogerie-557275 http://www.watchwow.com/2013/09/110008/basics-of-movement-finishing?page=2#.V9hSrIJ0-70 Then a different technique which unfortunately uses a really expensive machine but does produce interesting results. Plus from time to time she runs classes with the machines she has. https://mechanicalcurios.com/2016/02/15/photos-from-engine-turning-ii-class/1 point
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This type of thing is rear these days. Many old Pocket watches and wrist watches would have such a thing done. Its merely a decorative thing that is pleasing to the eye.1 point
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Patience, don't tighten anything, patience, test, patience,....repeat! I'm not telling either how I know...especially the patience part! Cheers, Bob1 point
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I've had this cushion cased Seamaster for a few years and wore it off and on. For some reason I was under the impression it had a10xx series movement which is not really as nice as the 5xx / 7xx series. The movement is running fine but the movt seemed to be a bit loose in the case, noticeable when the crown is pulled to set the time. Also there was a gap between the dial and the chapter ring at the 2-4 o'clock position (above picture is after, didn't take a 'before'). Well I took it apart last weekend to see if I could fix these issues. First thing I was happy to note is that the movement is a 752, not a 10xx, can't explain why I thought differently. The next thing I noticed was that the movement was stuck fast in the case. Taking a closer look it seemed that the movement ring/holder is not correct for this case being too small. To solve this problem someone had jammed some bits of old o-ring around the edges to hold the movement in place. This bits of o-ring had degraded into a gooey like substance which was a pain to remove from the case and movement ring. The caseback gasket was also as hard as a rock. The movement ring fitted to this watch, while did not seem to be correct for this case, was correct for the 752 movement. Fitted to the movement/dial the dial and stem-hold lined up perfectly. This made me step back and re-look at the movement ring again. I noticed that it had a groove which seemed to be made for an o-ring, also the case had a sizeable gap which seemed to indicate that there would be something (absorber) which would fit this gap and afford some level of bump protection, similar to what Certina did with their DS series. The absorber would not be a full ring as hole for the stem was in the middle of the groove in the movement ring, again, this is what Certina did as their movement absorber had a gap for the stem.. Well to cut a long story short, I had some 1mm and 1.5mm section o-rings and these fit in well enough so that the dial sits flush and the movement is held firmly in place. The bump-protection offered by the o-ring is not much as compared to the ring in the Certina DS it is much stiffer, the one in the Certina being more 'spongy'. Anyone have any experience with this model and can shed some light on this model? Another issue I found was this big bump on the caseback sealing surface which corresponds to one of the tool slot on the back. Probably someone used a chisel to get the caseback off in the past? Had to file and sand it down otherwise it would've ripped the new caseback o-ring. Finally.. as this has a 752 movt.. I think I'll be wearing this more often so it deserves a service soon! I can explain why having a different movement will affect my attraction to a watch but that's how it is! Anil1 point
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Thanks all. I don't use it a great deal Pip, perhaps averages out one cleaning session per week, just depends what I happen to be messing around with at home. Not really sure of advantages over an ultrasonic, the machines at my work have it built into the cleaning cycle if you want it, this old boy obviously doesn't but parts come out surprisingly clean and I'm real happy with it, and it's a small unit that doesn't take up much space which is a bonus. Perhaps more knowledgeable people here on the forum could answer your question. Brian1 point
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Interesting Cad, it's not something I have experienced. Every watch that I have serviced or refurbished has had the case cleaned in my ultrasonic bath. This is both with and without crystals fitted, and both glass and acrylic. I have yet to see a crystal disintegrate and that includes acrylics with what appears to be age related cracking. I use water into which a couple of drops of washing up washing liquid has been added. Temperature 40-50 degrees centigrade and three minutes in the ultrasonic. The watch case is placed in a basket suspended in the fluid. I would not recommend having the watch case sitting on the bottom of the tank to which the ultrasonic transducer is fitted. If the crud is really thick, I sometimes leave the case steeping overnight before using the ultrasonic.1 point
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That's a great job, how often do you use it and what are the advantages over an US out of interest? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk1 point
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That's an old boy. Well done with your achievement and it looks fine. Surprising what one can do.1 point
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Very nicely done,Brian3. I think I have just as much fun restoring the old tools as I do the watches. One of my other hobbies is restoration of antique radios. A lot of the skills from that hobby transfer over to the restoration of the watch tools, especially the electrical side and the polishing and cleaning. Good choice on the colour and lucky the faceplate survived in such good shape. I will have to settle for an ultrasonic cleaner for the time being as I would never be able to justify the purchase price for the amount of use it would get. Ron1 point
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Thank you oldhippy, takes as I'm sure you know a well maintained sharp graver as any imperfections on that will be transferred to your work piece.1 point
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You could probably get some generic gasket that will work?1 point
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I agree with oldhippy here, you've spent a lot of time on that stem and considering you did it by hand it's an awesome job........but it really won't work, please don't use it as it will grind it's way into the mainplate and cause so many problems going forward. Only way you can make a stem is with a lathe as the centricity of the component is critical to proper operation. Here's a pic of a stem I made at home on my little lathe, I filed the square while on the lathe too by using the locking pin, filing flat and rotating 90 degrees each time. Graver I use is an HHS one, 4mm square that I grind to my preference and to suit the job in hand, real inexpensive too. End result was good with both inner and outer hubs perfectly round and fitting the mainplate well. Look for Boley lathes on eBay, not usually all that expensive and really worth the investment.1 point
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Hi dadistic..I am now learning how to get around on this forum . I don't have any killer expensive pocket watches to show..I have purchased and repair common watches for our local chapter students to break . .I been teaching our beginners students mostly retired guys close to ten years and only repair tip ( after acquiring the proper basic tool set ) that I found successful for first time beginning students is to purchase three cheap running Elgin 16 size 7 jewel example model 291 pocket watches or movements ( Take these watches apart one at a time and clean them and reassemble them. If you forget how the movement go together or you break a pivot you have two others to reinforce your memory & parts. If you get one running, you are successful in learning watch repair. You get two running you are above average and parts to boot. If you get all three running you are great learner go to another make, model and higher 15 jewel watch. For what it is worth.. My two cents1 point