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For the beginner it’s not usually the obscure things that do you in its the basic stuff. The basic stuff that you don’t have the skill to see because it takes a lifetime to learn this. So you are looking for the obscure problems of why watch runs fast it be really nice to see the hairspring and balance wheel in the watch to see what they look like. Then timing machines are incredibly nice for diagnosing things like this. As the cost of the Chinese timing machines is very low I think it’s almost must have now versus what they used to cost when I first started making them more of a luxury. So looking at your last images I’ve reattached the image with a couple of things circled. Notice your hairspring is not centered? The coils on one side are farther apart the coils on the other side. Then because you’re not centered and as previously mentioned by others the terminal curve doesn’t look quite right the spring is practically touching the stud. If the hairspring touches the stud you shortened it by quite a bit is going to run insanely fast. Then I’ve attached another image of a Seiko watch that I have so to get a general idea of what you should be seeing. Of course you really should looking at the hairspring in the watch because that’s where the problem is occurring not outside the watch where things sometimes can move around. Plus some things are just really hard to see unless it’s in the watch and even then it’s very hard to see if involves hairsprings. Then it looks like your watches using the etachron system which makes fixing things like this easy providing you haven’t been bending the hairspring then it’s going to get to be more challenging. So from this image you can see what you should be seeing the top view and shows where the adjustments need to be made. Then I've attached one more file what a hairspring sounds like if it's bumping into something. Some timing machines will let you listen to the sound of the watch ticking and if it's bumping in the something it has really interesting sound. bad.wav

1) How do I straighten the hands without ruining them? Answer: I would gently re-shape by hand 2) What does the irregularity in the blue line of the second graph tell me? Answer: one side of the escape action is not correct now & again. Normally after a clean & lubrications this goes.

Fixed an old German pocket watch and an old 18l Elgin. The German one needed a new mainspring so I picked one up at Cousins UK and after much fun finally got the arbour to grab the spring and installed it. Then I oiled the crap out of it through the side of the movement with D5 and tada in started running. The Elgin I needed to disassemble to get at the jewels and gears because it was completely ceased up. Oils and reassembled it and it runs really well. I intend to do a complete cleaning on both of these watches but, for now, just wanted to see if I could get them running. https://vimeo.com/166703980 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are correct SIR!

And 1000% reward! Cheers, Bob

I'll bet it was fun getting all the wheel train pivots lined up on that thing! Dave

Hi Alexander! Excellent pictures and man, you are a pro both in the photography angle and the way you are doing this watch! Very good job indeed. You ask: "What does the irregularity in the blue line of the second graph tell me?" to me, the fact that the bridge is a little bent on that side appears to have disturbed the end shake/adjustment of the movement/wheel. This might reflect on the "noise" generated for the timegrapher to read. It appears not to be very serious -- although not good enough since it might be impacting the accuracy, error bit and probably amplitude. As clockboy said, check the scape wheel but in my mind it is a reflection of the above problem on the said wheel (not that there is anything wrong with the wheel itself...I don't know if I'm explaining it right). Of course, this is my take on it and again, I would definitely check how the wheels mesh during movement (remember the bent bridge). Double check after a good cleaning and lube. Regretfully, I don't have a solution for a bent bridge and in the end you will have to maybe shim it or live with it as is, short of whack it to make it "flat" again (not recommended although doable). As for the hands, I usually straighten them with either my fingers or the back of the tweezers but it depends on how far gone they are. In the end I clean them with rodico (since I touched them). I've found that -- for some hands anyway -- the thickness of my bergeon mat give a fair height to "support" the tube of the hands so I can have half the hand on the mat to straighten and then turn it 180 degrees to straighten the other half while keeping the tube against the edge of the mat and supported by the actual bench at the bottom, flat (always working against the mat using the back of the tweezers or similar depending). Even the flat round "pusher" of the hand setting tool might be of use in some cases where you want to focus on a distorted spot. You will need another tweezers or something to hold the hand steady and in place for this operation. Never do a "rubbing" movement with the tweezers since they will scratch the finish of the hands....but you can do so with your fingers. All this "explanation" doesn't really apply when you work with the hands tube "up" and needless to say, lume is very frail and care must be taken not to damage it. Maybe I'm breaking the rules in the watchmaking world but so far it has worked for me. Always try to protect the hand's tube and most important their point where they rivet together. When those bend they are almost impossible to fix with normal, everyday tools. IMHO. Cheers, Bob

What happened to the post ?

Thanks to all for your help . szbalogh and syfre . Did take the measures i had an looked on Cousinsuk ronda staffs. Found one that was as near as i could come. It was a Postala. Googled postala and hit the nail riight in the middle. Made my day. http://bdwf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72531

Today its a Roamer Popular for me.

Hey AlexanderB Excellent write up mate, and the pictures are wonderfully clear. I'm very interested in seeing more on the system holding the end-stones of the Balance ... they look very "old school" indeed. Keep up the great work and writes mate!!

Signal to noise ratio

I use it. It works well. I rinse in ethanol, though don't leave the pallets in it for too long.

Well done its a nice feeling when you have it going and keeping good time.

The first thing I did was demagnetizing the watch. Well done in doing that I can't stress how important that is it can save a lot of time and problems and it can even look after your tools. This is good and clear for all to see on how to go about taking this cal movement apart, fine photos and detail to. Well done.

Ronda staffs by size is in the download section of cousins uk

Done: Don't forget my two questions, please: 1) How do I straighten the hands without ruining them? 2) What does the irregularity in the blue line of the second graph tell me? Cheers Alexander

Today is Accurist day. A rather nice number, picked up for around a Tenner. Just polished the crystal and it looks great. Just a couple of cracks in the glass, but I'm OK with that.

Thank you. What do you mean by "Maybe low S/N for that tick" S/N = Serial Number? The old is already sold.

What I found out as a beginner is that I need a backup movement in case something goes wrong. Spares are not easily available, hence I was looking at another bargain. And I found another watch with a 7733 movement for 156 EUR including shipping. I like this one even better from the design. The second hand is roughly at 1 o'clock so there is something to repair. Hope to get it by end of next week and show you more when I have it. When I look at the prices for the 70's watches with Valjoux 7733 they are usually beyond 500 EUR. I will open a new thread when I start working on that but I will do services of at least five more movements just to get more practice. With the support of you guys I will be able to manage this. Cheers Alexander

Guys, I fixed the crown, I simply pushed the clutch inside the crown and then pinched the outer part with tongs (pliers, whatever it's called), now it has less spring action but at least it won't split from the clutch and I can pull it out to set the date with no problem.

Yes, Watch Repair for Beginners: An Illustrated How-To Guide for the Beginner Watch Repairer by Harold C. Kelly or/and Practical Watch Repairing by Donald De Carle Also check this one out: http://www.clockmaker.com.au/diy_seiko_7s26/ AND don't forget Mark's videos!!!

Hi Sowulo, I've had some AF screwdrivers and they are fairly good. Since you are starting on the Caravelle, do you have the movement number? I would only buy for now the size of the screwdrivers needed for that movement if I want to save money...and don't mind the wait when I decide to work on a different movement. I would also try one Horotec and one Bergeon screwdriver to see which is more to "my" style...I use Bergeon but some of my friends here prefer Horotec. Either way, the tips are interchangeable on all three (3) brands...of course we are talking AF with the screw not the other type. I can't tell you about the colors off the top of my head... In UK, -- and many other parts of the world too -- CousinsUK seems to be the best. I personally order a lot from them even though we have big suppliers here too...it just depends. I have no experience with the other two. As far as oils, this is a "sticky" subject, pardon the pun. I would say it also depends on the watch, service data and size. In any case, you can be as safe as you could ever be by having -- talking wrist watches -- Moebius 9010 (double duty on low bit movement for the pallet jewels too), D5 or HP 1300 and Moly (keyless works and such). As far as the grease, depends if you are working in autos or not. If the Caravelle is not an auto, maybe Moebious 8200 (on mainspring, not barrel) will do. Now that is a bare minimum. You should see what recommendations are in the service data and go by those if at all possible. Now, for the oilers, get the Bergeon (the cheapest of their offerings). Get the set (about US$12) it is more economical than buying separate...in the end you will mostly use the black one (the thinnest one). They shouldn't bend or break with proper use...don't go poking at stuff with those you use for oiling! Rodico and pithwood are your best friends to keep the oilers clean so you don't contaminate during applications. Clean your oilers after every application even with the same oil. Also, get some oil pots of fairly good quality...I bought one once made of Bakelite that appeared to have a crack and all the oil would magically disappear...also because the lid was cheap, it didn't succeed to keep whatever oil still remained free of dust, evaporation and more...I had to replace that one! I use a regular, inexpensive but not cheapo, ultrasonic and appropriate baskets and beakers to clean. Also proper ultrasonic Watch Cleaning solutions (wash and rinse, two different ones). You can clean by hand using naphtha or a similar (Ronsonol). Check out our cleaning topics. The book you have chosen is excellent and a most. Also, find and download a DeCarle book...it is in pdf on the web. There are many watch related books you can learn from but those would give you a good start. You can check out the Seiko "repair" couse in the web somewhere that shows you how to "work" on Seikos for free...In the end, you have many options that will pop up as you advance. Hope this answers your questions. Good luck in your watchmaking journey! Cheers, Bob

Excellent advice from members above. I would just add that - as I know to my cost - it's comparatively simple to get a movement to bits, but can be fiendishly difficult to get it back right again and in the proper order. So my advice would be to take notes at every stage, set the disassembled parts out in order of disassembly and, if you can do it, take a photograph at every stage to back up the notes. Then, like setting out on a maze with a long string or a trail of breadcrumbs, you won't get lost on the journey home. Part of your tool kit will be trays or dishes or plastic containers to hold disassembled parts. And - I'm sure you know this - learn the terminology of the mechanism so that, if you ask a question, you're talking parts language that people here can understand. You'll get even more help! Cheers, Will

Service of a Seiko 6106 Movement Sorry I have been slack posting movements I've serviced at home, but work has been busy, and the movements I've been servicing are not that different than what I've already posted ... just more of the same. Well, I got another one of my Mum's friends who asked if I could repair their watch that was given to him on his wedding day by his wife: who has now sadly passed away :( Of course I said YES!! And it turned out to be a lovely old Seiko; but a little worse for wear :unsure: The hands had fallen off, and the plexiglass was so scratched you could hardly read the dial. After opening up the caseback, there was evidence of corrosion starting to set in ... but thankfully it was caught in time. Here's what the intact movement looks like. Once the automatic works were removed, it was obvious this poor old thing has never seen a service since it was purchased in 1974. Very dirty, and very dry. This movement has a complex keyless works which included a pusher for rapid date change, so before I started removing the dial side, I pulled the Balance and Pallet Fork ... just to be sure to be sure :) Notice how dirty the movement is from this angle as well. Ok, on to the dial side, to remove the calendar work and the Keyless work. Calendar work is pretty much like all Seiko's ... minus that annoying phillipshead screw, thank the Lord! Here's a picture of the Keyless work, with the incorporated pusher system for date change. More of a close-up of the pusher arm There is also a large spring for the pusher mechanism Once that was all disassembled, it was back to the Train Gears and Mainspring. Notice this movement also has a hack that stops the Train Gears; instead of the Balance ... all very interesting :) And for my good mate Bob ... here's the picie of the Automatic work mate :P Look how dirty and nasty the Eccentric Bearing is ... Ewwwww! Here she is coming back together after a long bath in the suds Lookin much better! I polished the case, and spent about 15mins with Ploywatch trying to polishing all the scratches out of the glass ... but it was just too far gone :( Still at least you can read the Dial now :P Off to the Timegrapher and in typical Seiko fashion, once cleaned it purrs :D Hope you enjoyed this post, and I'll try to post more often guys.

The short answer unless you try extremely hard oiling the pallet fork pivots is not the source your problems. Although you didn't tell us what lubrication you are using? I once saw in a classroom situation one of the watches the student worked on, on the timing machine could not be timed. It resemble a watch that hadn't been cleaned and lubricated in 100 years. In other words it had the symptoms of incredibly sticky gum oil preventing the train from moving in a proper fashion and it produced is really interesting waveform on the machine. So if you try really hard like grease instead of oil or something else inappropriate it will be a problem. The problem we have for diagnosis of your watch is we need to see it. So we rely on your description and as a beginner you're not going to see what we see you're not going to see the problem more than likely. So we can guess lots of guesses and the guesses are all correct in some situations perhaps in your situation but we still can't see the watch. It's why asked for a photograph which might help us. Then yes I know trying to get a decent picture of the hairspring balance wheel is an issue. So the simple is to make a watch go fast shorten the hairspring. You don't have to physically cut the hairspring off to make it short. As mentioned the other way to shorten the hairspring is something sticky on the coils they stick together. Magnetism on the modern watches it's different what it does it will be a problem but the coils usually don't stick together after the magnets removed. If this was a blued steel spring they can get magnetized and stick together. The most likely scenario is no matter how careful you were you probably have bent the hairspring. Then the other thing is what was the condition of this watch before you took it apart? In other words did the problem exist before or after you worked on it. So now we have the nifty new color tech sheet they're lots of pictures of the balance wheel on the hairspring to look at. Much much nicer than the old black and white. Then regarding timing machines depending upon who made them they do have another feature which is amplification of the sound. A lot of times when listening to a watch if the hairspring is bumping into inappropriate things or rubbing it makes really interesting sounds sometimes. Then for other ideas of how your hairspring is supposed to look a similar discussion probably not the same problem but he has some nice pictures the balance in the hairspring so you can compare. http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/2914-seiko-5-gaining-suggestions/