Lubricants

[Dwdrummer97]

As I am just getting my work area started I need to know what grease and oils I need to have on hand.  I see that there are many different kinds but I am wondering what are the basics that you can start with to service most movements.  

[Mark]

Well I would definitely start with Moebius 9010 (for train wheels and balance endstones) and 9020 (for train wheels) if you are working on Pocket Watches.

Moebius 9415 is a must for Pallet/Escape wheel teeth.

A quality silicon grease.

Moebius D5 is essential (barrel arbor, motion work).

Molycote DX or Moebius 9501 grease for keyless work.

Moebius 9501 or 9504 for high friction (e.g. Cannon pinion, Setting lever spring and anything at high friction).

Moebius 8200 grease for mainspring. Moebius 8217 for barrel wall (automatic watches)

 

It's a lot but at a minimum get 9010, 9415, D5 and 8200

 

I hope this helps.

 

Recommended Lubricants for Getting Started.pdf

Moebius_Oil_Chart.pdf

[Dwdrummer97]

About a year ago when I was just starting to get a bit serious about starting this hobby I bought one of those cheap watch repair kits. I have since replaced all the crap in there with quality versions of what they were supposed to be. My question relating to this topic is this little tube of oil in the kit. Is this just more junk from the kit or does it have any purpose or can it be used in place of any of Marks suggestions? Seems VERY light and my feeling is that the trash can is its new place.

[Mark]

I would not trust it. The last thing you want is for oil to spread out of where it is intended to be.

 

Its probably still good for some things though. I use cheap clock oil for lubricating my tools like my lathe, the threads on pin vices etc.

[Dwdrummer97]

Good advice. Thanks.

[Dwdrummer97]

About to purchase the suggested lubricants and wanted to know if these prices seem normal to you? It's nearly $200 for just 4 small lubes! Anyone seen them anywhere cheaper/smaller quantity? This is my cart on esslinger.com

[Dwdrummer97]

I actually talked my local watch shop into selling me small amounts of the oils. They said since I am a good customer they wouldn't mind me bringing my oil cups down for a small fee of $15! I guess it pays to be a loyal customer sometimes.

[newguy]

I have watched the video on how to service a 2824 movement. I have movement here that I would like to service, but I have a question about the oils. 

 

In the video, (Mark's video on youtube) he says to use Moebius 9010, 9415, and D5. I am a real amateur and I have to buy all the tools and oils to do this. My question is if there are any oils which I can substitute in place of these to use as a cost savings, or If I haveto go with the Moebius oils.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, I am in the USA, so if any of the sites in the UK dont ship overseas, or if its not worth it, please let me know.

 

Thanks,

Guy

[Mark]

Hi,

 

It is most desirable to use the best oils possible especially when working on high grade watches. I regret that this is one area where you should not skimp.

 

I agree that Moebius oils are very expensive though.

 

For the grease you can use Molycote DX which is really quite cheap.

If you are just practicing on scrap movements then you should be able to get away with Moly (grease), and 9010 and a heavier clock oil for the barrel arbor bearing.

 

If you are very careful you can use 9010 on the pallets in place of 9415.

 

But this is not a desirable solution on high grade movements as poor lubrication will cause poor watch performance and even stop a watch - I have seen it time and time again.

 

I hope this helps. 

[newguy]

I was looking online and found these. Any thoughts?

 

http://www.esslinger.com/esslinger-pure-silicone-watch-oil.aspx

 

http://www.esslinger.com/50-centistokes-pure-silicone-watch-oil.aspx

 

http://www.esslinger.com/100-centistokes-pure-silicone-watch-oil.aspx

[AlecJ]

Hey DWDrummer,

I just noticed you are in KC. I am in Overland Park. What watch shop do you use? I am VERY new to the hobby myself. I have been collecting tools, reading blog posts, and reading Henry Fried's bible. I an currently going through the http://www.clockmaker.com.au/diy_seiko_7s26/ tutorial. I have taken a perfectly functioning Seiko and turned it into a pile of parts! I am waiting for L&R cleaning fluids to arrive so I can clean the parts and move forward.

At any rate didn't intend to hijack your thread just wanted to connect with a local amateur watchmaker. In the future maybe we could split costs on things?

Regards,

Alec

[AlecJ]

Well I would definitely start with Moebius 9010 (for train wheels and balance endstones) and 9020 (for train wheels) if you are working on Pocket Watches.

Moebius 9415 is a must for Pallet/Escape wheel teeth.

A quality silicon grease.

Moebius D5 is essential (barrel arbor, motion work).

Molycote DX or Moebius 9501 grease for keyless work.

Moebius 9501 or 9504 for high friction (e.g. Cannon pinion, Setting lever spring and anything at high friction).

Moebius 8200 grease for mainspring.

 

It's a lot but at a minimum get 9010, 9415, D5 and 8200

 

I hope this helps.

Is this acceptable for Molycote Dx??

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CAD6AAE/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A8FEBY5XL3B8V

Thanks,

Alec

[Lawson]

Is Moebius 9501 acceptable for the mainspring? As I don't have 8200

Will I do damage to the mainspring by using 9501; or is it just due to the cost difference between the two that 8200 is the choice?

[bobm12]

Hello, I'm a new member, I'm a lot into watches but with little experience. Still I think I can answer the last 2 posts. Please, feel free to disagree since this is all a learning experience.

 

To Alec:

I think the problem with the substitution might be a "spreading" effect potentially contaminating other parts in the mechanism. Oils designed for watches are supposed to stay in place. By using that molycote substitute you may be risking its interaction with other oils in the movement causing contamination resulting in decline of efficiency or worst. With that said, it would be interesting to consult the manufacturer and/or try it in a test watch and see what happens! It is my experience that a lot of products out there, sold as specialized items, come from widely available standards used in far related fields.

 

To Lawson:

Even though I have yet to experiment with other oils/greases including that one, I believe the Moebious 9501 is a synthetic grease used to alleviate friction problems. Normally we use "breaking" type grease in the main spring. This means that a certain friction is welcome inside the drum if I can put it that way for short. With that said, I don't think it will damage anything but make the mainspring slip and not work properly. This translates in a loss of power. In other words, your reserve may be less than optimal....

 

Happy watchmaking,

 

Robert

[bobm12]

Dwdrummer, isn't Eurotool a brand Horotec endorses? I remember something I got from them made by eurotool...I think. In any case, I agree with watchrepairguy!

 

Happy watchmaking,

 

Robert

[bobm12]

I think I finally cracked the Seiko oil equivalents according to their charts for 7S26/7S36:

 

Moebius A = Moebius 9010

S-4 = 8302

S-6 = KT22

 

Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks,

 

Robert

Edited June 30, 2014 by bobm12

[bobm12]

I know this link is getting old but I just found Seiko's S-4 and S-6 lubricants and they are not one bit similar to the ETA thought to be their counterparts/substitutes. Here are some pictures:

 

S-4 for barrel spring and some related parts (the black thing you find when you open those Seiko 5 barretls)

 

For keyless works and related: (anything requiring thicker oil than Moebius 9010)

 

Needless to say that Moebius 9010 is the lighter oil recommended Seiko call it Moebius A. It also uses it to lube the pallet fork jewels! (rather than Moebius 941! 

 

In any case, if working on Seiko's these could be the only lube needed. If working with Swiss movements then oil needs will vary according to different brands even if they are based on ETA ebouchees. (Also the size of the ligne will influence the type of oil use)

 

Anyway, I hope this can help when choosing oils.

 

Robert

[Don]

Since Molykote DX can be substituted for 9501 for keyless work, can it also be substituted for 9501 on the cannon pinion and setting lever spring? The reason I ask is I'm trying to keep costs down and 9501 isn't cheap.

 

Thanks,

 

Don

Well I would definitely start with Moebius 9010 (for train wheels and balance endstones) and 9020 (for train wheels) if you are working on Pocket Watches.

Moebius 9415 is a must for Pallet/Escape wheel teeth.

A quality silicon grease.

Moebius D5 is essential (barrel arbor, motion work).

Molycote DX or Moebius 9501 grease for keyless work.

Moebius 9501 or 9504 for high friction (e.g. Cannon pinion, Setting lever spring and anything at high friction).

Moebius 8200 grease for mainspring.

 

It's a lot but at a minimum get 9010, 9415, D5 and 8200

 

I hope this helps.

 

[Mark]

Since Molykote DX can be substituted for 9501 for keyless work, can it also be substituted for 9501 on the cannon pinion and setting lever spring? The reason I ask is I'm trying to keep costs down and 9501 isn't cheap.

Thanks,

Don

Keyless work includes the setting lever spring ;)

Moly should be fine with the cannon pinion although I have never used it for such I can see no reason why it would not be affective :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Don]

Thanks for the info. There is so much information on the web about watch oil, it can get very confusing.

[colinh]

I've seen this topic come up all the time in various forums, but somehow I'm still not clear on the greases. I'm starting from the charts for the Valjoux 7750, and will be doing various automatics, chronographs, divers/pilots.

 

9010        fine oil

9415        special oil for pallet stones

9104 (= HP1300)   thick oil (instead of D5)

 

 

9501      for driver cannon pinion, keyless works (instead of Molykote DX)

 

8217 (=Glissalube 20) for (automatic) barrel wall (instead of Kluber P125, which I can't get in small/cheap enough quantities).

 

Should I also get 8141 for the mainspring itself and the barrel floor ?

 

Is that OK? 

[Mark]

I use HP 1300 (instead of D5) on higher grade movements such as 2892 and the Dubois Depraz modules, as well as HP 500 in place of 9010 (except on balance end stones where I still use 9010).

 

Your list looks good.

 

I did a small list in this topic also. http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/83-lubricants/#entry310

[bobm12]

I figure  that given the amount of oil we use in a watch -- we average hobbyists -- once we get some basic stock of the most useful oils -- sometimes making them do double duty in a pinch -- we are set for a big while. In the meantime, we can start stocking up on the other oils -- little by little -- so in the end we can service any watch with the proper lubricant. One thing to keep an eye on is the expiration date vs. how much we use them. It is a shame to have to throw out expired oil! So, as it goes, Moebius 9501 is next in my list! In the meantime, DX and others will have to double duty for it.

 

On a happy note for those on a very strict budget, Novostar type B can be used instead of Moebius 9010. I don't do this but I do have a bottle in my "traveling tool kit" instead of the more expensive 9010 which stays at home.

Edited September 17, 2014 by bobm12

[colinh]

OK, I ordered the following Moebius lubricants:

 

9010

9415

9104

9501

8217

8141

 

1 ml of each, except the last two, which were 5 ml. Total, just under 100 €.

 

I've got a silicone grease in the O-ring sponge cleaner/applicator.

 

 

Re HP 500: I was looking to get fewer oils/greases, not more :-)

 

 

By the way, a tip from photography film development: you can increase the shelf-life of chemicals (oils) which are prone to oxidation by adding small glass beads which displace the air from the container.

[Geo]

By the way, a tip from photography film development: you can increase the shelf-life of chemicals (oils) which are prone to oxidation by adding small glass beads which displace the air from the container.

Oh, that takes me back! The marbles were made redundant when polythene bottles came out because you could squeeze them.