Over tightened Casebacks

[digginstony]

The times I notice the screw caseback has been tightened completely up and is difficult to release.

I can understand this on a dive watch where compression has to be considered, for diving but in all other circumstances, isn't necessary.

All that is required is a sufficient seal between the case and gasket i. This is done before the final thread and the gasket in partial compression is assisting to lock the case back in place.

And when removal of the back is required again, it's an easy task.

Think of your house when you turn the water supply off. When you turn back on , you turn the valve handle all the way back and then quarter turn back. This helps the thread becoming stuck.

When I replace the caseback I use one of these which is sufficient to keep everything in place and a water tight seal for most occasions, certainly for a desktop diver

 

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[jdm]

I don't agree that using a ball to close a case back is sufficient or good practice. At the minimum, a Jaxa tool. That is the typical tightening I find on new Seiko watches, and on occasions I need to use the real thing to open divers. 

[digginstony]

I don't agree that using a ball to close a case back is sufficient or good practice. At the minimum, a Jaxa tool. That is the typical tightening I find on new Seiko watches, and on occasions I need to use the real thing to open divers. 

Experimentation required. Take the movement out of one of your skx's. Replace crown and caseback with a ball. Submerge in water, even give it a shake and see if you find any water ingress.
Also with Seiko, can't speak for others, haven't tested. Unscrew the crown, Submerge in the same way if the seals are good, will be very surprised if you find any water ingress.

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[jdm]

To be honest, since I've bought the tool, I'm much less inclined to do pressure testing... because the sink is in another room 

Edited June 25, 2017 by jdm

[digginstony]

To be honest, since I've bought the tool, I'm much less inclined to do pressure testing... because the sink is in another room [emoji3]

I've only got the sink [emoji4] I was referring to watches used for general day to day use. If I was going in the water I would screw down but for my own peace of mind rather than a practical necessity.
Also I noted Seiko use a dedicated flange on their dive cases for their gasket. Which is far superior to a watch without.
Any diving everything should be tighten. Some people believe at depth. Movement creates additional pressure. Which is true but the human body would have to be swimming at 50mph to make a significant difference

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[jdm]

I don't even believe to watches for diving, forum threads on the subject are *so* repeating. One sentence I care to avoid is "desk diving", for some reason it gives to my nerves. But I did dive with a bottle (not beer) once, and it was amazing. If I were to do it again I would probably wear one, but only because I would  neglect to leave it in the room, but be worried to have it stolen if left on the boat.
All that being said, my daily beater is a dive watch. I blame that on my customers corrupting myself.

Edited June 25, 2017 by jdm

[digginstony]

Just to update. Though the watches that I mentioned previously showed no visual signs of in letting water.
Now I have a pressure tester
Out of 4 of the watches tested just using the ball to fasten the case back, 3 failed a 3 atm pressure test !
They were fine once screwed fully home.
An additional test on a Rotary 3 piece case with a snap back that at some point in it's life had been mullered. Also I have replaced the crystal, passed the test with flying colours . I expected this watch to fail.
In conclusion I've changed my opinion as just using a ball to tighten, even on a watch used daily in dry conditions, as potentially moisture could still ingress.
From the above, a watch that is of value, it's well worth having it tested and changing gaskets at the appropriate service interval

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[Ishima]

I mean using moderate force, a case back should never be that hard to remove. I would say definitely use a Jaxa or similar to do the final tighten/first loosen. There's no problem with using the jaxa and doing it a bit tighter than the rubber ball can do, the problem is some technicians out there seem to think it a strong-man competition and are completely reckless with how much they tighten it. Reasonable, moderate, controlled force (Which I get is a nebulous concept) is all you need, no grunting or panting or gauging the case back, no spraining your wrist, etc. 

I've taken notice that, when working on omega and tag watches that I knew were last worked on at a tag/omega workshop, that the technicians don't even tighten them as much as I would. but certainly, they don't come off with a rubber ball. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Ishima

[Chopin]

When trying to open a case back that is too tight I'll use one of the metal tools but if the small holes/gaps on the case back are made in such a way that my tool will slip I actually try my best to use the rubber ball so as to not scratch the case back.

Takes a bit of time and effort but it works. Not always but better to try and insist a little than scratch the case.

When screwing it back in place I usually use the rubber ball and then the tool to tighten it.

If the watch is not really water resistant (below 200m WR, no screw down crown) then I won't tighten it as if it's supposed to go into the Mariana Trench.

[ricardopalamino]

Aloha digginstony , 

I splurged earlier this year and got this puppy . I believe I got it at the make offer price of $224 .00 and free shipping .

Man , I love it . From China , Yes ,...but very well made ....all machined and fitted parts .

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOP-Big-head-High-Quality-Watch-Case-Opener-Watch-Open-Tool-watchmaker-tools-Set-/221278174618?hash=item338534fd9a:g:9kcAAOSw~FNUacGd

The first watch I opened was a vintage Seiko that must have been cross-threaded and stuck with super glue guck . I had been trying to open it for a couple of weeks using my jaxa tool , penetrating fluid , coaxing it by putting it in one of my case holders that can clamp down to my desk so it won't move and tapping the jaxa notches trying to unscrew it ,...all to no avail . After letting the penetrating fluid sit overnight on a few occasions and then tapping all around the case back with a small rubber and neoprene headed hammer , once again , No Dice . 

So I went ahead and got this super nifty case back opener, set the watch in the nylon holders that fit , adjust , and hold the watch between the lugs . turned down , fine adjusted , and locked in the jaxa type fittings in this case to the notches ,and Voila ,...I turned the large top wheel and had no problem opening the case back . No slipping , no scratches or gouges . Just smooth as butter .

I have since opened a variety of case backs including Rolex as this tool comes with the openers that fit the tool .

More pricey then a Jaxa tool , but I can easily recommended it .

[digginstony]

Aloha digginstony , 
I splurged earlier this year and got this puppy . I believe I got it at the make offer price of $224 .00 and free shipping .
Man , I love it . From China , Yes ,...but very well made ....all machined and fitted parts .
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOP-Big-head-High-Quality-Watch-Case-Opener-Watch-Open-Tool-watchmaker-tools-Set-/221278174618?hash=item338534fd9a:g:9kcAAOSw~FNUacGd
The first watch I opened was a vintage Seiko that must have been cross-threaded and stuck with super glue guck . I had been trying to open it for a couple of weeks using my jaxa tool , penetrating fluid , coaxing it by putting it in one of my case holders that can clamp down to my desk so it won't move and tapping the jaxa notches trying to unscrew it ,...all to no avail . After letting the penetrating fluid sit overnight on a few occasions and then tapping all around the case back with a small rubber and neoprene headed hammer , once again , No Dice . 
So I went ahead and got this super nifty case back opener, set the watch in the nylon holders that fit , adjust , and hold the watch between the lugs . turned down , fine adjusted , and locked in the jaxa type fittings in this case to the notches ,and Voila ,...I turned the large top wheel and had no problem opening the case back . No slipping , no scratches or gouges . Just smooth as butter .
I have since opened a variety of case backs including Rolex as this tool comes with the openers that fit the tool .
More pricey then a Jaxa tool , but I can easily recommended it .

Aloha
I have a similar case back opener. My issue was with the amount of force required to open some backs that came into my possession and why were they tightened to such a degree ?
I did some tests with a ball, which initially seemed favourable but had no means to check the watches under "Stress".
I acquired a water pressure tester and as already stated had a 75% failure rate using a ball as a means of securing a water resistant seal.
Therefore I withdraw my original comments on the efficiency of using a ball as a means of attaining a water resistant seal.
Also I find your type of case back opener to be "Best" and certainly more efficient than a jaxa. Though this could be down to faulty manipulation [emoji4]

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[jdm]

8 hours ago, ricardopalamino said:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOP-Big-head-High-Quality-Watch-Case-Opener-Watch-Open-Tool-watchmaker-tools-Set-/221278174618?hash=item338534fd9a:g:9kcAAOSw~FNUacGd

You can find the same or larger selection of Chinese tools for less on aliexpress.com

[ricardopalamino]

3 hours ago, jdm said:

You can find the same or larger selection of Chinese tools for less on aliexpress.com

Howzit JDM ,

Thanks for the info on this site .  I will do some browsing .

[Blubarb]

On 6/26/2017 at 4:53 AM, jdm said:

To be honest, since I've bought the tool, I'm much less inclined to do pressure testing... because the sink is in another room 

same here

[digginstony]

Just a word of caution. When buying from abroad, certainly from the UK. Some of these deals are not so great, once you've paid VAT + Import duties + handling fees from the Courier service.

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[jdm]

1 hour ago, digginstony said:

Just a word of caution. When buying from abroad, certainly from the UK. Some of these deals are not so great, once you've paid VAT + Import duties + handling fees from the Courier service.

At this time, UK buyers pays no additional VAT or duties of any type when buying from the EU. And Chinese sellers are helpful with declared value.

[vinn3]

a torquing  wrench is required on larger equipment.  you could use a 1/4 inch torque wrench with a special made case wrench.   vinn

[vinn3]

most mechanics  will "over tighten" !  that is why a torque  setting is required.     this is for installing back or for measuring "over torque".  vinn

[jdm]

4 hours ago, vinn3 said:

most mechanics  will "over tighten" !  that is why a torque  setting is required.     this is for installing back or for measuring "over torque".  vinn

Really no need of over-complicating things. Not even the zealous Swill tool makers offer such a contraption.

[vinn3]

no tool needed,  for watches.  the industry has simple hand tools to measure this, but for much larger threads.

[PJA]

Before you folks are going to buy via eBay buy directly from China and save the brokerage fees. Go to AliExpress and scroll through this search and search it yourself as well. BTW: don't buy any of the cheap stuff, from my experience it's just waste of money.

Edited September 10, 2017 by PJA

[ricardopalamino]

11 minutes ago, PJA said:

Before you folks are going to buy via eBay buy directly from China and save the brokerage fees. Go to AliExpress and scroll through this search and search it yourself as well. BTW: don't buy any of the cheap stuff, from my experience it's just waste of money.

Thanks , JDM mentioned this site on Aug . 30

[PJA]

17 minutes ago, ricardopalamino said:

Thanks , JDM mentioned this site on Aug . 30

I buy from AliExpress for about 5 years now and it's basically like the Chinese version of Amazon, although they've got some issues of trust with the rating I have found, roughly, in general, the more expensive stuff is okay and in case of a problem I usually file for a dispute. in fact, now many sellers on Amazon and eBay are selling with direct shipping from A.E. with the seller's name on the invoice, so you can't even tell (A.E. has this program now). So, anytime you will see China on eBay and Amazon or 30 days shipment it must be a hint. I actually have just received my new Timegrapher about an hour ago from them and about to unbox it.

Edited September 10, 2017 by PJA

[vinn3]

thanks for  re mentioning the  " China site ".    N ow if  someone has a " direct from Russia site". i would try it. 

[PJA]

4 minutes ago, vinn3 said:

thanks for  re mentioning the  " China site ".    N ow if  someone has a " direct from Russia site". i would try it. 

In fact many Russian buyers on this site. But once again I must stress that they try not to publish or hide negative customer reactions, so it's another place to shop on but keep your guards as well.

Edited September 10, 2017 by PJA