Jump to content

Is Rust An Insoluble Problem?


WillFly

Recommended Posts

I'm looking at a 1940s Swiss chrono on eBay at the moment. The pushers are jammed and there's a deal of black rust on the movement - mainly in the winding area - but the dial looks reasonable.

 

Rust in a movement can be a serious problem - is there a stage at which it just isn't worth cleaning and repairing?

 

Rust.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some are OK to clean up - this one is quite bad.

 

Surface rust comes off quite easily but when the corrosion has started to eat into the steel parts then it is best to replace those parts and this is where it can get complicated as a lot of those vintage chrono movements have limited parts availability.

 

As you can see from my article here: http://www.watchservices.co.uk/blog/2013/08/22/restoration-of-tag-heuer-movement-rusted-solid-valjoux-7730-7733/ you can get not bad results on occasion. But my general rule when taking on a job like this is to look at the steel parts - any rust that's gone black (from orange) then the part should be replaced (as long as they are available and within the clients budget). Any rust at all on the wheels or escapement then those parts should be replaced. 

 

I am working on two rusty Valjoux 7750's at the moment - one I just finished (video coming soon) and the other was so bad I have had to replace the whole movement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that advice, Mark - this watch is advertised on eBay for £130 - or offer. I think that I shall bypass this one. It's a "Le Phare", which is a reasonable make, but not one worth spending probably the best part of £450+ on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking at the case of that chronograph it looks like it has had a hard life,  if it was 100% perfect what would it be worth?  One in that condition is a bit like buying a used car and then finding it needs this doing and that doing and by the time you have finished paying out you have spent way beyond what it is worth.  Buying off Fleabay is risky at the best of times but I'm sure bargains can be had.

 

RogerC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quite right, Roger. I bought a Swiss chrono on eBay before Christmas for just a little more than the watch above would cost - and the one I bought was in very reasonable condition indeed. In fact, it's being cleaned, serviced and regulated by Mark as we speak! I think this is worth every penny of the total cost - but I think the Le Phare pictured above is too far gone - and the asking price, even for the age of the watch, is over the top.

 

Will

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hello from France,

Thank you for this great forum and for the sharing of knowledge.

 

I also have 2 questions about rust and oxidation related to the restoration the higly rusted  7733 Tag Heuer Movement:

1 - what is the technique used to remove rust from the dial ?

2 - which was the product use to remove all the traces of oxidation ?

 

In advance thank you for the advices

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1 - what is the technique used to remove rust from the dial ?

2 - which was the product use to remove all the traces of oxidation ?

 

 

 

 

1 - I would wager that you would not be able to remove rust from a dial without damaging the paintwork. This is a job for a professional watch dial restorer.

 

2 - There are products which can remove rust but at a cost to the finish of the part - depending on how deep the rust is you can use an abrasive brush (fibre glass brush or brass) to gently rub it away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have just been reading a blog about the restoration of a Jardur Chronograph with a badly rusted Valjoux 71 movement, The whole movement is given an initial 2 hour soak in Horolene clock cleaner prior to strip down. The author states that  "If you ever work on a rusty movement, make sure to soak it in acid or Horolene before taking it apart – it greatly lowers the chances of breaking off pivots". It does seem to have helped on this particular restoration, I think I will give it a try on the next basket case I fall for on fleabay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have just been reading a blog about the restoration of a Jardur Chronograph with a badly rusted Valjoux 71 movement, The whole movement is given an initial 2 hour soak in Horolene clock cleaner prior to strip down. The author states that  "If you ever work on a rusty movement, make sure to soak it in acid or Horolene before taking it apart – it greatly lowers the chances of breaking off pivots". It does seem to have helped on this particular restoration, I think I will give it a try on the next basket case I fall for on fleabay.

 

Was the Horolene diluted? That stuff is really potent!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Hi,

I'm after a bit of advice please. I got the attached Bergeon pin gauge set in a lot I bought recently. As you can see a few are missing, of the rest some have lost the actual measuring part. However a fair amount are still intact and accurate (measured with a micrometer) and will be very useful. However they all need cleaning, and some have rust although it appears to be a surface coating rather than part of the gauge having corroded. What would be the best way to clean these up and remove the rust without damaging or reducing the sizes of the gauges? Thanks

Stephen

 

post-373-0-56340600-1448125291_thumb.jpg

 

post-373-0-87439100-1448125309_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

RCDesign, can you please give details of the equipment you use in the electrolysis. I think it looks just the job and would like to give it a go.

Thanks, Mike

There's a few how to guides on youtube.

I've used this one for de rusting some old tools.

Suppose it's just a matter of scaling down quantities.

Removing Rust with Electrolysis - WOOD magazine

http://youtu.be/54ADeB6V1rQ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

I just used a simple small 2A 3-12V supply!

For removing rust most seem to use abt 12V but that is probably just because a battery charger is often found in the garage! 

Try 6-12V - when you get a nice "fizz" in the soda with power applied-just check your corroded part every 10s or so!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is the best way I have found to remove rust. Both WASHING SODA and BAKING SODA will work but baking soda does not dissolve as well in the water. I prefer washing soda for this process. For smaller rust spots sometimes I will just soak the rusted piece in Phosphoric Acid for a few minutes.

david

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

I have read about an early fluid which you can put a movement in if it is very rusty. I've seen it on watchguyuk! I just can't find a post about this because it's several years ago. Does anyone have an idea of what it can be for a liquid that dissolves the screws and other things that are gone fixed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dissolving screws u can use Alum. Bergeon has a rust remover. Nothing i have tested though. Some  use vineger or baking soda. That i have tested and it works to some extent.  As long as there isn't to much rust damage it works. Alum i have used a lot. But that dissolves the iron screws compelety so take care. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Yes, "Sold out" is difficult to understand. There doesn't seem to be a lot going on. It's been nine months since any new video was published on the Watch Repair Channel. The Level 4 course on watchfix.com has been in progress for what feels like forever (several years!?). Maybe Mark's enterprises aren't doing well or perhaps already so profitable there's nothing much to motivate him for more material. Or, perhaps these days he's more into crochet. The real reason is probably something entirely different but it would be nice/interesting to know. I don't mean to sound gloomy or pessimistic, but I wouldn't be surprised to be met by an HTTP 404. Every day feels like a gift. Speaking of watchfix.com I've been postponing the "Level 5: Servicing Chronograph Watches" course for a very, very long time. Anyway, I just enrolled on it so it's going to be very interesting to see the videos. I must say, IMO there's nothing really that can compete with Mark's courses when it comes to presentation and video quality. It's simply world-class and makes me associate with some really expensive BBC productions.
    • Steel has some funny properties, or at least counterintuitive. The modulus of elasticity is effectively (not exactly, but close enough) the same for steel that is annealed and hardened. What changes is the point of plastic deformation* . If the movement of your spring doesn't pass that, it should work fine. It looks a little thick, I would thin it a bit maybe from the main body out about halfway, maybe 10-20% thinner (not in thickness, along its form). But if it works it works!   *So- if you have two bars of the same steel, one annealed, one at 600 Vickers (general hardness watch arbors might be), clamp them to a table so the same length is hanging out, and put a weight on the ends, they will bend the same amount. But if you continue to add weight, then remove it, at a point the annealed bar won't return to its original straightness. That's the point of plastic deformation. But up to that point, as springs, they are the same. However- their wear characteristics will be very very different. And getting the hardened bar past its point of plastic deformation takes a lot more effort.
    • @JohnR725 now that you've mentioned it. This is actually the second aftermarket spring (same place and brand) I ordered as the first one broke. The eye on which the arbor pulls on, broke off on the first spring after the first wind, and also it was a bit to large for the arbor. Looked like on one the second picture in the 2nd group. The second one was exactly the same, I had to bend it a bit, to give it a more prominent curve to the end of the spring so that the arbor catches the eye.  Also I believe both were 5-10mm shorter. Not that I writing that, I feel a bit dumb, as the spring might actually been the problem all along, although its advertised as a substitute to the original...     
    • The CS70 is the only one they show as annealed.  A further search on ebay, I found CS75 and CS100 annealed carbon steel strips  e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314072784422
    • Aloha and thanks for catching all these small but important details, John.  I'm going to give it a shot. The good news is I have a parts movement here with a perfect complete balance.  I will place them side by side for visual reference when doing what you outlined.  It's been a while were I've had a hobby in which I joined a forum.  I forgot just how helpful everyone can be. Mahalo. Frank.
×
×
  • Create New...