brenray cleaning machine

[robmack]

Thanks Maclerche.  Great diagram.  Hammer, that's all that is needed - a series connected thermostat.  Then you'll have yourself a great watch cleaner.

[Watchtime]

what an amazing project, kudos for all your efforts....

[Hammer2017]

Once again, thank you so much for all the input. I have absolutely no doubt that I wouldn't be able to complete this restoration without the help I've gotten here - I really appreciate it.

I have a couple of quick questions regarding the new circuit diagram:

- Am I correct that I need to cut the spring resistor out of the circuit completely?

-Can I use a different type of bulb to the one you've linked? eg an E10 Indicator Light, Clear, 230 V, 13 mA, 1000h. This will fit in the bulb housing that's presently there. I'm not sure the neon one you've suggested will, so I'd have to work out how to house that one.

-Does the thermostat need to be mounted externally so it can be adjusted, or does it go inside, and cut off the power to the heating plate once it hits 60 degrees?

Thanks again!

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Hammer2017

[maclerche]

 

Once again, thank you so much for all the input. I have absolutely no doubt that I wouldn't be able to complete this restoration without the help I've gotten here - I really appreciate it.

I have a couple of quick questions regarding the new circuit diagram:

- Am I correct that I need to cut the spring resistor out of the circuit completely?

-Can I use a different type of bulb to the one you've linked? eg an E10 Indicator Light, Clear, 230 V, 13 mA, 1000h. This will fit in the bulb housing that's presently there. I'm not sure the neon one you've suggested will, so I'd have to work out how to house that one.

-Does the thermostat need to be mounted externally so it can be adjusted, or does it go inside, and cut off the power to the heating plate once it hits 60 degrees?

Thanks again!

 

1. Yes, get the spring off.. cut or soldering

2.  E10 230V 13mA is great!!

3. you can not just the klixon, just mount it somehow on the side of the heat chamber where it can be hidden! Hope this pic make sense ....

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by maclerche

[maclerche]

A slightly better illustration :-)

 

I would place the thermostat on the side of the heat/drying chamber. As high as possible. First I would drill a hole, mount a 10mm. copper screw through the wall of the Chamber. It will direct the heat quickly to the thermostat. The thermostat would I attach with screws in the Chamber wall. Either with self-tapping or machine screws. I hope the idea makes sense ... see drawing below!

 

 

[Hammer2017]

Thanks for those diagrams, Henry. I understand what you're talking about. I'm just waiting on delivery of the thermostat and the bulb to get going with it. I'll update as soon as I do!

[robmack]

I'm questioning the need for the thermostat.  I watched Mark's video on watch cleaning and realized that the heating chamber is creating just warm air that dries the cleaned parts of watch rinse.  So, you'd want the heater to go full on to create a very hot environment to evaporate the liquid quickly.  The 60*C thermostat would hinder this and the parts might not dry properly.  Even the Elma Elite schematic above does not have a thermostat in the heater circuit, just the neon bulb paralleling the heater element.

Edited May 29, 2017 by robmack

[Marc]

Although you want the parts to dry quickly you still need to be careful regarding temperature.

The melting point of shellac can be as low as 75C and it will start to soften before that. If you don't want to risk the shellac that holds the impulse pin and the pallet stones in place then 60C is a sensible maximum temperature.

[maclerche]

If you look at the the Elma Super elite. Then the old ones have a heating element at 90W

The newer ones has a heating element at 200w and therefore i think the need for thermostat is there.

Elma Junior has a thermostat  as well...    I see no need for heating the cleaning liqued ... but here ti will do heat a little... 

[robmack]

Ok, thanks for the insight.

[Hammer2017]

Ok, happy tidings! I've finished all the soldering, put it back together, and everything is working! No blown bulbs, super heating resistors, or blown fuses!

The heater is heating up. I ran it for about 30 mins under supervision, and all seems to be fine. The plate gets pretty hot, but the air in the chamber doesn't get too hot, so I suspect the 60 degree thermostat might not ever kick in, but it's good to have it there just in case. I seem to be having trouble with photos again, but here' s a shot of it operating:

I decided not to do anything with the control plate at the moment. The machine has taken up most of my watch time lately, and I want to get back to that. Maybe at some point in the future I'll get one made up.

Once again, thanks to everyone who has helped. Without you guys, I wouldn't have been able to get it all working again! I look forward to posting in the watch repair forums from now on!

[maclerche]

Great... like that very much .... 

Do the speed control and the brass bushing work out as well ??

 

 

[Hammer2017]

I'm still using the plastic bushing I made (for the bolt through the elma bracket to the motor shaft). I've got those brass ones from ebay on the way, and will replace them when they arrive.

The speed control works, although it seems to be a very fast top speed. I've only run it dry though, I expect it will turn slower in the cleaning fluid. Will try that out when they arrive!

[robmack]

Well done.  Enjoy the fruit of your labours.

[atkinson]

On 5/12/2017 at 3:08 PM, Hammer2017 said:

Thanks again Rob. I've taken some photos of the brushes. I don't know how long they need to be, but they are spring loaded and seem to be in contact with the motor. Hopefully you'll be able to see from the photos if this is the cast and they are ok. It was hard to get a good shot. It'll also give an indication of the dirt inside the motor housing.

can you tell what size the brushes  shown are please also the spring length and diameter. Thank you.

Other images to follow... I'm having an upload issue!

 

[atkinson]

 I have been given an old Brenray which i would like to refurbish but it's got no brushes or springs.Can anyone who owns a Brenray please tell me the size of the brushes please, L.W.H it does not matter if they are worn it will still give me a good idea what i need to get, also the diameter and length of the spring would be nice to have.Many Many Thanks..

[robmack]

If you have a caliper you might be able to estimate the size of brush.

- the width and depth of the bruah (its cross-section) is square

- The width and depth should be slightly smaller than the measured opening in the motor that accepts the brush

- the length of the brush should be slightly longer than the distance from the commutator to the brush housing, possibly twice that length

- the overall length of the brush assembly (brush plus spring) should be 1.25 times the length from the commutator to the top of the brush housing

The commutator is the copper plates attached to the motor's rotor against which the brush rides

The brush housing is that part of the motor casting which will accept the brush.  It is topped by a threaded plastic cap that secures the brush assembly.

If you have doubts, take the Benray motor to a local shop that rewinds automotive alternators.  They will have the expertise to help you select the right brush set.

[Marc]

I dug out my old Brenray and had a look. It has a Brenray "Imp" motor.

 

Diameter of spring is approx 4.9mm.

 

Brushes are square section approx 4.65mm x 4.65mm.

 

 

• 

Hope this helps.

 

[robmack]

He'll also need the carbon brush length and spring length in its expanded relaxed state.

[Marc]

6 hours ago, robmack said:

He'll also need the carbon brush length and spring length in its expanded relaxed state.

Very true.

Obviously this brush is worn so I can't tell what it's original length would have been.

[atkinson]

Thank you to everyone who shared their knowledge, i managed to use some brushes made by Lucas but at the end of the day it turns out i have four or five sections down on the commutator, so i have to try and locate a used one.

[Watex]

I have just purchased an old Brenray watch cleaning machine.  I have dismantled everything except the motor.  I need to remove the basket holder but I don't know how this is attached. It has a grub screw which I have drilled out since the head was broken, however, the holder won't come off. Is the basket holder attached to the piece above, is it attached directly to the motor shaft or is the whole assembly attached to shaft? Any help with this would be appreciated.

 

[oldhippy]

Could you provide us with some good photos? Then we can advise you.

[Watex]

Thanks for the reply.  I did try to upload some photographs but for some reason this failed - I will try again.

[ro63rto]

Thanks for the reply.  I did try to upload some photographs but for some reason this failed - I will try again.

Probably cos you have only 2 posts.
Try uploading using the imgur site/app.