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Seiko 6R15C suddenly losing time


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Yes, you're right. It is frustrating but nothing is quite as rewarding as getting these one running well!
So I cleaned and lubricated the escapement wheel and pallets. That cleared up the weird fault and beat error. Then I replaced the balance, but amplitude still was not great. So then I replaced pallets and escapement wheel. Better; but still not consistent and nowhere near what I feel this movement is capable of.

As Clockboy pointed out it only takes the smallest of faults to slow or stop a watch working. You're going to need to strip the entire movement and check every pivot for straightness and inspect jewels. Also throughly clean all parts. If the movement is -30 then -96 then going up, it's pointless attempting any regulation.
If the back of the watch has been removed previously to the fault occurring this may be due to ingress of dirt. Note how Mark on his videos where's a white cotton or linen coat. If your leaning directly over the movement with a woolly jumper on you might be horrified how much dust can be deposited into the movement. It could only take one grain of sand to find its way in to cause serious damage over a short period of time.
A Seiko movement fresh from the factory should have an amplitude of around 260 dropping to 240 in positional variations. Obviously after some usage that amplitude can drop and 220 is not an unrealistic figure.
Accuracy and limitations of the movement... if one of my Seikos were running +/- 10 to 15 seconds I personally wouldn't remove the case back to regulate and risk compromising the integrity of a new watch unless I had another reason to be removing the case back.
High quality wrist watch movements are adjusted, normally in five positions (this is not regulating) and is done by the watchmaker, making adjustment to the balance wheel, hairspring etc, and they are normally at the top of their profession. This work is expensive and contribute to the cost of such watches like Rolex. Seiko I believe are adjusted to one position (dial up) which contributes to them maintaining their products at a competitive price.


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Looking at the reading you have a fault on one side of the escapement. Most likely a dirty escape tooth or dirty pallet. If it was me I would just service the entire movement. However if you don,t want to do this then remove the power & clean the escape wheel/ pallet folk hairspring and lubricate. Also when the pallet folk is removed check that the pallet stones are secure. I have encountered this with one loose which also causes this fault. If the blip happens at the exact amount of time then it is a bent escape tooth.

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15 hours ago, Folkvisor said:

I've replaced an entire movement for less than it cost for a balance assembly on a Seiko. That might be your best option.

Not for the 6R15. The balance assembly is relatively cheap, £15.55.

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That's pretty good. Also, I couldn't find that particular movement on the Cousin's site, so I guess you haven't got the replacement of movement option.

On Cousins the 6R15 is unavailable but they sell the NE15 which is identical, only branded for OEMs. Incidentally the OP here has already purchased one of these.
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Hey guys,

Since I have an NE15, I'm just going to swap movements. I'll keep the rotor from the 6R though to keep it looking nice. 

However, the NE is 24 jewels and the 6R is 23? Anyone know why/where that extra jewel is?

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4 hours ago, Folkvisor said:

The entire NE15 movement is about £80. One sometimes must balance your time with expediency. Even happens with piano tuning and repair.

As mentioned, the balance itself is just GPB15.55. Even if in this case swapping the balance seemed to not help, on Seiko and most other watches the balance is the most important component for good timekeeping, and cause of most troubles. Being able to replace parts makes the difference between being part of of a "watch repair community", on just being watch tinkerers and modder like these guys that swap dials, hands and bezel to proudly show on popular Seiko forums.

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I believe the OP has also changed the pallet fork or stones and the escape wheel (which is where I suspected the fault lied) to no avail. The watch is only a couple of years old and wouldn't of expected trouble of this sort with a Seiko. I note the OP states that he had the watch running within a couple of seconds a day so I make the assumption the case back has been off and regulated and the movement could of been contaminated at this point.
If the timegrapher is still displaying fluctuations of amplitude and a wavy pattern , personally I would be stripping and cleaning the whole movement and considering replacement parts have failed to rectify the fault, checking each wheel, starting at the escapement and working back through the train and mainspring barrel, for wear or damage but more particular "Side Shake" which should not exceed one third of the diameter of the pivot.
Surely replacing the movement is a legitimate repair under the circumstances and expedient as Folkvisor stated. We're not talking about great deal of expenditure. Anyway best of luck to the OP whichever route he decides to take and please keep us updated, particularly if you locate and fix the problem

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Ok so here's what I've just discovered:

Yesterday I put my watch on the grapher just to see how it was doing. It's running great now! Amplitude has bumped up to 240! And consistency is much better, positional variance​ is much improved too.

Why this happened, I don't know. But I wore it today, put it on the grapher when I got home and still excellent results.

So I'm happy with the way it is right now. Could the new pallets and escapement have needed "breaking in"?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just to share in regards to Seiko amplitudes since we're on this subject.

 

Finally received my new Timegrapher and so am now able to better check my work (used the iOS Timegrapher app prior).

 

Recently finished one of my Seikos, a 7009A (had to get a replacement escape wheel mailed from India to replace the one with the broken pivot I crushed some time back whilst trying to get the bridge installed) that was part of the handful I bought over a year ago that started the addiction (of repairing).

 

Readings below after cleaning/piling/re-assembly.

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Recently finished one of my Seikos, a 7009A

An old 7009 is very different from a recent 6R15 like the OP posted about. Please open a new thread if you want to discuss about it.

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Here's what I got from the 7S26 w/original mainspring.

Am also learning, so obviously expected higher amplitude based on the overhauls of other makes of watches I had seen on the internet, till I saw this thread.

Kinda suffered in silence thinking that I might have made a mistake along the way culminating in the results seen.

Thanks for sharing!

 

IMG_4115.PNG

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Apologies to Mechanicmosco & Jim; but didn't mean to hijack this thread - just wanted to share my timegrapher results working on Seikos with their original mainsprings for bench-marking/comparison, if needed.

 

Might have been a tad long-winded, but yeah.

 

Have a great weekend, all!

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