Do you see anything strange in this balance wheel?

[chriz74]

It's always about my non winding GMT. I opened it again and as far as I can see reverse wheels are working. What do you think about this balance? is it ok?

 

[frenchie]

One easy thing to check is to remove the automatic bridge and see how the watch runs.

[chriz74]

3 minutes ago, frenchie said:

One easy thing to check is to remove the automatic bridge and see how the watch runs.

What do you mean? I can wind it manually and it will work until the charge is gone, auto winding is not working.

[frenchie]

31 minutes ago, chriz74 said:

What do you mean? I can wind it manually and it will work until the charge is gone, auto winding is not working.

Oh ok. So your issue has nothing to do with the balance.

When you slowly turn the weight (with a piece of wood or equivalent), does it turn smoothly? If so, do any of the wheels on the automatic bridge turn?

[chriz74]

Just now, frenchie said:

Oh ok. So your issue has nothing to do with the balance.

When you slowly turn the weight (with a piece of wood or equivalent), does it turn smoothly? If so, do any of the wheels on the automatic bridge turn?

Yes it turns smoothly and the wheels turn, all three wheels are turning regardless of rotor direction

[rogart63]

What frencie means is that you should remove the automatic bridge to see if there is any problem with that? 

But i think you answered your own question? It can be wind manually but not wind automatic. 

So think the problem is in the automatic winding? Broken reverse wheel probably? 

When you turn the rotor does it wind the mainspring? 

[chriz74]

4 minutes ago, rogart63 said:

What frencie means is that you should remove the automatic bridge to see if there is any problem with that? 

But i think you answered your own question? It can be wind manually but not wind automatic. 

So think the problem is in the automatic winding? Broken reverse wheel probably? 

When you turn the rotor does it wind the mainspring? 

How can I see it? If the rotor does wind the mainspring.

[frenchie]

23 minutes ago, chriz74 said:

How can I see it? If the rotor does wind the mainspring.

You should see the mainspring barrel rotate and the click move.

[frenchie]

Note: it might be hard to see the movement of the barrel or the click (it's very slow), so you can make a small mark as a reference point with a felt tip pen on the barrel (wipes of with a q-tip dipped in alcohol).

[chriz74]

43 minutes ago, frenchie said:

Note: it might be hard to see the movement of the barrel or the click (it's very slow), so you can make a small mark as a reference point with a felt tip pen on the barrel (wipes of with a q-tip dipped in alcohol).

I did a video, please check it at 720p.

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by chriz74

[Marc]

It looks like it's working to me. If you watch the ratchet wheel closely you can see the click "clicking" over.

[RyMoeller]

Hmmm... The mystery remains.

Here's a few things I'd look for-

1. How much play is there in the rotor?  Is it possible it's colliding with the caseback?  I've only worked on a single autowind but I've heard that the bearing for the rotor will wear over time and this will cause issues (of course you'd probably hear or feel it on your wrist).
2. Do you move around enough?  I'd sleep all day if I could but of course that would result in my watch not winding.  Obviously this sounds unlikely but I guess it is a possibility (you can tell I'm grasping at straws here). 
3. Here's a link to another non-winding Rolex.  It might give you some ideas of where to look if you've got the tools, skill, inclination, etc. to disassemble the autowinding mechanism.

I hope you are able to solve the mystery here.  It's must be enormously frustrating to have such a wonderful timepiece that just doesn't want to run properly.  Reminds me a bit of my old Fiero GT. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by RyMoeller
grammar

[frenchie]

The barrel is moving, the click is moving too. It almost looks like something is slipping but it's really hard to tell... (no reference point).

[chriz74]

9 minutes ago, frenchie said:

The barrel is moving, the click is moving too. It almost looks like something is slipping but it's really hard to tell... (no reference point).

I think I see the click you are referring to. The little wheel on the bigger one right? But it seems the big one is not moving , am I wrong? Isn't that the barrel wheel?

[chriz74]

20 minutes ago, RyMoeller said:

Hmmm... The mystery remains.

Here's a few things I'd look for-

1. How much play is there in the rotor?  Is it possible it's colliding with the caseback?  I've only worked on a single autowind but I've heard that the bearing for the rotor will wear over time and this will cause issues (of course you'd probably hear or feel it on your wrist).
2. Do you move around enough?  I'd sleep all day if I could but of course that would result in my watch not winding.  Obviously this sounds unlikely but I guess it is a possibility (you can tell I'm grasping at straws here). 
3. Here's a link to another non-winding Rolex.  It might give you some ideas of where to look if you've got the tools, skill, inclination, etc. to disassemble the autowinding mechanism.

I hope you are able to solve the mystery here.  It's must be enormously frustrating to have such a wonderful timepiece that just doesn't want to run properly.  Reminds me a bit of my old Fiero GT. 

Very frustrating as if you also think the service  for this at Rolex is quoted 950 euros and there are a lot of problems regarding the policy on aged dials and parts... however I also tried to unscrew the case back so that there is more space between the rotor and the back and put it on the watch winder and nothing. The watch stops. I'll check the post 

[matabog]

If you want to take a wack at it:

 

[chriz74]

23 minutes ago, matabog said:

If you want to take a wack at it:

 

Thanks but this is a 1575

[frenchie]

1 hour ago, chriz74 said:

I think I see the click you are referring to. The little wheel on the bigger one right? But it seems the big one is not moving , am I wrong? Isn't that the barrel wheel?

The click is the small device that allows the barrel to turn in only one direction (it makes the "click" sound when you wind a watch). See attached picture.

If it's easier to see, make a small mark as a reference point with a felt tip pen on the barrel (wipes of with a q-tip dipped in alcohol), and do the same test.

At this point, I'd say a wheel has a broken tooth (or teeth) on the automatic bridge, or the bridge is loose (broken screw)... You really should try to find a watch repair shop to look at it. It's not very easy to fix or diagnose with no experience.

[chriz74]

I don't understand how the watchmaker that looked at it twice couldn't fix this. The second time he even kept the watch for 4 and an half months.

[rogart63]

When you turn the rotor this wheel should turn? Can't  see in the video if it does? Still think it's a broken reverse wheel? Can't be the click?  If it was that  the manual winding shouldn't work either? Which is does?

Red line should turn in one direction regardless of which direction you turn the rotor.

Edited March 13, 2017 by rogart63

[rodabod]

Extra photo of a similar cal 1570 here:

The ratchet wheel and click are the bronze coloured wheel at the bottom with the screw in the middle, and the clock sitting to its lower left. 

As Rogart says, you want to check that the ratchet wheel is turning when the rotor rotates. It will take many rotor turns for one tooth of the ratchet wheel to pass the click. 

It may be easiest to demonstrate to yourself its operation by first observing the ratchet wheel and click while slowly manual winding. Then rotate the rotor and check it also turns the ratchet wheel. 

Also, just for clarification of some of the comments above, you will not see the barrel move as it moves extremely slowly. The barrel is the section underneath the ratchet wheel, and it is the barrel which drives the train of wheels. The ratchet wheel turns the barrel arbor when winding, the barrel arbor winds the spring, and then the spring tries to unwind by turning the barrel which in turn drives the gear train.  Maybe the terms "ratchet wheel" and "barrel" are being confused. 

[anilv]

To have an idea of how the click and ratchet wheel interact, hand-wind the watch and observe these parts.

The rotation of the rotor will have the same effect on the click and ratchet wheel.. it just takes a lot of rotations of the rotor.  These watches have reverser wheels which can act up.. cleaning and lubrication helps but sometimes the only option are new parts. If the reverser wheels are indeed the problem, it goes without saying that the whole watch will probably need a service.

950 euros is big money, but reputable repair is possible at a lesser cost at non-authorised repair shops. The problem is that if parts need changing they may not be able to source them.

The watch looks pretty decent so you could get lucky and all it needs is a clean and oil.

Personally, I would put the watch away while I save some money to get it done right (not neccessarily Rolex dealer). Using the watch as it is may cause more damage.

Anilv

Edited March 14, 2017 by anilv

[Deggsie]

The barrel is moving, the click is moving too. It almost looks like something is slipping but it's really hard to tell... (no reference point).

I am a novice so please excuse my input if it is rubbish. But might the fact that 'something is slipping' point to a problem with the mainspring or problem with it being unhooked? As I say I'm a novice but I read of a similar issue and wanted to share that with you.


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[chriz74]

I zoomed in big on my video and to me it seems that the click is being skipped. The wheel doesn't advance past the click, it tries to advance but it fails and goes back.

Edited March 14, 2017 by chriz74

[rodabod]

1 minute ago, chriz74 said:

I zoomed in big on my video and to me it seems that the click is being skipped. The wheel doesn't advance past the click, it trys to advance but it fails and goes back.

Sounds like you may have found your fault.