Mechaical Electrical watches

[Tmuir]

A week or two ago I read on a forum (I think it was this one, but I could be wrong) about an electrical mechanical watch they had repaired.

This type of watch up until then I didn't know existed (How much I still have to learn).

From what I understand these watches were very short lived in the 1970s and used an electrical circuit to energise a magnet to swing the balance and were just before quartz watches came into being.

I'm aware of tuning fork watches like the Accutron, but know very little about these other electrical watches.

Has anyone got a good resource they can point me at so I can read up on them more, or recommend a few brands /  models to look out for to buy? At the moment I don't want any rare or super expensive ones, just some good ones to learn to work on.

 

Thanks

Tony

[WileyDave]

Tony,

Here is one I can't recommend, from my personal experience, it 's a LIP R148, 14 jewel in a Benrus. The watch was given to me by neighbor, battery was dead so I replaced, then I took to my watchmaker and he said coil was bad, so I found a parts one on the bay for a mere 20 USD, once I swapped out the coil it still did not run. And I swapped out diode, still no go. To make matters worse, seller said it was running, (which is why I bought it) I didn't challenge him and suppose I should have. Anyway after seeing the tech manual in French, <link> it was easier to give up.(then try to learn French!!!!) I might try to muck with it again, but it a seems lost cause. LIP made good mech movements, no wonder there aren't a lot of these out there. Just my opinion unless one has resources to tackle this type of movement and can speak French fluently, I'd try those Hamilton or Waltham or even timex electric or similar type, Fair warning the Hamiltons are expensive, even repair movements are not cheap. They may have more parts available and a simpler design. good luck in your search~ Dave

http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t4350-revue-technique-lip-r148

[Geo]

You may be interested in this.

http://www.seiko.co.uk/discover-seiko/technology/spring-drive

[JohnR725]

I have two references there are other websites out there but both of these are good. the first one is the contents of the book minus the pictures. So the physical book has pictures of nearly every single watch that's referenced on the website. The second one to give a clue of a lot of the electric watches I don't think that's all of them necessarily you want to look at the gallery page.

So electric or electronic watches go through multiple generations. Early ones that are just mechanical contacts usually with a diode. Then transistors integrated circuits finally evolved to quartz watches but along the way we end up with a whole variety of clever interesting and bizarre designs.

http://doensen.home.xs4all.nl/index.html

http://electric-watches.co.uk/

[Tmuir]

Thanks everyone, lots of good reading for me to do.

Love the Seiko Spring drive watch, but a bit out of my price range at the moment, but some of the other Seiko Electronic watches seem possible.

[david]

Tmuir,

There is a book written by Henry B. Fried called (publisher B. Jadow and Sons) THE ELECTRIC WATCH REPAIR MANUAL  that pretty much covers the entire scope of battery powered time keepers. The copyright date on my copy is 1972 and it should cover the mechanism for your particular timepiece.

david 

Edited January 28, 2017 by david

[dadistic]

Watch for the timex electrics and electronics, they come available every so often and are not as pricey as some others. Electronic just means that they added a diode 

The movement models are 40 and its variations 41 and 42, and 50 and its variations 51,52,and 65

I'm sharing the service manuals here -

Timex Documentation

The manuals are pretty complete for the electrics, and have some nice diagrams explaining how they work

If you have any trouble accessing the docs let me know.

Edited October 2, 2021 by dadistic
update

[david]

Just as a note of interest, timekeepers like the Bulova Accutron were electro-mechanical devices.  The oscillating mechanism (tuning fork) was connected mechanically to the hands with a solenoid and ratchet mechanism. What some people call an electronic time keeper has to do with the way the tuning fork oscillations are counted. It was known for many years that running a current into a quartz crystal would cause the crystal to vibrate. Since the vibrations occur on an atomic level they vibrate at a much faster rate.  The problem was quartz crystals were too large to fit into a watch.  Japanese engineers figured out how to reduce the size of the quartz crystal  by machining it into the shape of a small tuning fork. This allowed a much faster vibration that was not practical to count mechanically. This problem was solved by using a digital counting register available in an integrated circuit. The circuit works by using a string of 16 flip flop circuits. A flip flop circuit is the electronic equivalent of a latched relay. Logically it does the same thing but on a practical level flip flops  operate at a much faster rate. The upper time limit of a relay is based on the response of its mechanical components while the upper time limit of a flip flop is based on the speed of electricity. The first 15 elements of the register  count the vibrations from 2^0(1) through 2^15(32,768).  The next vibration moves the count to 2^16 which is used as a flag bit. At this point the register is reset and a polarity reversing circuit is triggered. This circuit provides the necessary pulse to drive a stepper motor.

A stepper motor consists of a rotor with a north-south magnetic field projecting radially from the rotational axis. When an electromagnetic field is generated around the armature it rotates to the field of opposite polarity and stops. When the field is  reversed the armature again moves and stops. The direction of rotation is controlled by making the path of one field longer than the other.  The stepper motor  is connected through a gear train (plastic gears) that drives the hands.

david 

 

Edited January 28, 2017 by david

[diveboy]

Tony,

If you make it to melbourne, I have the largest known collection of Elgin Electronics, happy for you to have a fondle.

heres a page on my site which is about the first publicly shown battery powered watches in 1952.

https://www.elgin.watch/enwco/events/watch-of-tomorrow/

The LIP R148 is a great design and robust to this day. LIP sure did learn alot off someone.

[Tmuir]

Thanks, Interesting read diveboy.

I recently changed jobs and don't think I will be doing any interstate travel for a while unfortunately.

[Spencelayh]

Hi , I have just serviced My Avia Swissonic electric watch , bought for me as a 21st birthday present 43 years ago.

It works pretty much as Tmuir suggests. Accuracy is more like a decent mechanical watch than a quartz one. I will attach a couple of 'photos.

For further information have a look at this site, it's quite interesting. http://electric-watches.co.uk/

[Geo]

Welcome to the forum Spence, I look forward to hearing more of what you get up to.  Nice watch, and good result with the servicing.