Ramble on 'DIY' watch owners.

[Ishima]

I'm reluctant to open this can of worms, but I am getting fairly tired of the posts by new users who you can quickly guess by their first (and often only) post are just average people who have watches that have become damaged and assume the task of repair is easy enough that they shouldn't go pay a professional (Which includes a number of us) to do it.

I don't see why anyone, from a hobbyist to a professional like myself should spend our time helping the willfully ignorant and disrespectful (Aside from politely directing them to a qualified person) while simultaneously undermining the watch repair industry. 

Now I do acknowledge that this is largely inevitable, I've been a member of various watch repair online communities and they always come out of the wood work, I can even forgive the ignorance they have that isn't willful. And I expect it.

However a lot of other users seem oblivious to the indignity of it all (which is not to insult the intelligence of the users here, I've found it equally true elsewhere), and freely offer instruction, and often doing so as if they were talking to someone who was inducted to horology.
Let me be clear, an ocean separates the enthusiastic hobbyist -- of which I'm quite fond and happy to help -- and the 'DIY Hero' as I call them ironically, who have no respect and just want to save a buck. In my experience they often make their watches worse, or leave once they've got what they want from us and do not become long term members or develop any deeper interest in the subject. I'm wondering If I'm alone in thinking this is a problem and what if anything can be done to help to keep this forum a place of constructive dialogue between those who are truly interested and engaged.

Well, you've very kindly read through my tirade, so I have to ask, what are your thoughts? 

 

Edited January 22, 2017 by Ishima

[StuartBaker104]

Hmmm

I can understand your frustration, but we all have to start somewhere. In my early efforts at repair I asked lots of questions, both directly and of google. Without the many, many forum posts on the web, I would never have been able to do many of the things I do now. Lots of these posts were not written for me, but I have learned much from them.

I use professionals for some jobs and do others myself. I don't see that I'm depriving anyone of a living as most of the watches I repair myself would not be economically viable to have repaired, but I get satisfaction from solving the puzzles I encounter.

So what about the DIY-er? It's where I started, but because of the information available I stuck with it, and now I have a new hobby, which I really enjoy. I guess it's a question of whether to give people a chance. I'm prepared to do that in almost everything I do. Sometimes, just sometimes, the reward is someone who just needed an opportunity to find a new career or direction in life...

 

[anilv]

I think there are two types of DIY hero.

1. The quartz hero... nothing to see here, move on.

2. The mechanical hero. These are basically people who have (or been given) a mechanical watch and would like to get/keep it going. Surprisingly a lot of people seem to think that 'all' mechanical watches are expensive and cost a bomb to service.  I think we should encourage these guys. .. even if its just recommending a good watchmaker.

For my part, it doesn't cost me anything to reply a post ... as long as the subject interests me. If I've had a long day I may not bother but as I usually visit this site for relaxation this is quite rare.

oh. and all of us here started with a first post!

Anil

 

 

 

 

[Ishima]

Again I think we're struggling to conceptualize who exactly I'm talking about, it's the guy who comes on here with an attitude of "any idiot could do this i just need someone to tell me 'the trick' " you can tell this in how they simply ask for the instruction without saying anything about previous experience or showing any humility or asking whether they even can or should do it. For that kind of person the chance of them become engaged in this is about a million to one. I don't think you would have fallen into this category stuartbaker. 

Edited January 22, 2017 by Ishima

[Ishima]

I'll admit I might be wrong and these people can have their attitudes changed and get into this, again I'm just going by my experiences, and I'm far too used to explaining to people the difficulties and complexities faced in watch repair in my job, in real life, only to have them say something like "it's just a watch..." or just scoff at me like I'm lying to them, or my own personal favorite when offering the more expensive than normal service to fit a battery to a luxury watch "A batteries just a battery" it's not that often but it's happened to me enough and that maybe informs my disposition.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Ishima

[CapMoy]

I have known people with enough money to buy a small plane and fly it around as a hobby and really enjoy doing it and I do not feel offended by that...I been a pilot for 32 yrs and started in this very interesting world of watches four yrs ago...as for me this is my , sorry if I offend , time out my relax my hobby...and trusth me there is a ocean of difference between a hobby pilot and a professional one as well.


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[CapMoy]

When in doubt ask the pros...I agree on being more humble and be patient with Us the rookies ...


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[NMarsh]

I'm new to this forum as well as the hobby so I probably have no room to talk on this topic, but I'll throw my 2 cents out anyway. I think you walk a fine line when you dissuade people from getting into the hobby. I myself probably fell into the category you speak of just a few months ago. I had inherited a watch and check about getting it serviced and realized how much it would cost for a piece that was purely just sentimental with no real value at all. So I decided instead maybe I could do something about it. Not that I ever thought it would be easy, I just figured it would just be one more reason it would be sentimental. So I hopped online and just started reading, and maybe that's where I deviate from the group that you are talking about because I chose to watch hours worth of mark's videos, as well as other videos. And read through forums and even got a beginners watchmaking/repair book which I have slowly been working through. I didn't jump in and ask for the easy solution.

However had I done that, I probably still would have been headed down the same path I am now buying up cheap movements on eBay to practice on, slowly working up to more complicated movements for myself. But had I been welcomed with a "this isn't for everyone, go see a professional" I definitely wouldn't have stuck around. I do understand the frustration to some extent because I see similar stuff on Reddit communities that I participate heavily in and it can get frustrating at times. But I have learned that it's sometime a better idea to win someone into your hobby rather than push them out just because they lack certain etiquette. Especially for an art like watch making/repairing that seems to have a smaller and smaller community of hobbyists.

Hopefully this was coherent, typed it up on my phone so please forgive me.


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[david]

Ashima,

I have never at any time seen this level of elitist arrogance come from Mark Lovick (the forum administrator) or any of the moderators. No comment like yours was ever mentioned in any of his excellent watch repair videos or in any post written by him or the moderators. The stated purpose of this forum and the YouTube watch repair videos was to create a platform to share watch repair knowledge with others. To my knowledge it was never stated that the reason for the existence of this forum was to provide a platform to demean the skill level of other members in order for a small group, who consider themselves to be the chosen few, to sell their services. I used to belong to another forum that was destroyed by two members who considered themselves to be God's gift to horology. I sincerely hope that this sort of situation does not happen here.

david

[SSTEEL]

The sole purpose of this forum is to help, and educate the community in watch repair, but at the same time, to build a great friendly community too, sharing likeminded advice, tips, reviews on tools, equipment, be it photos, links, videos, news articles, headlines, and pretty much anything else that fits into our community.

My day job is working on watches, and I don't see these great forums being a threat to my livelihood.

[CapMoy]

Short time I been in this forum I had a warm welcome and already helped with my pocket watch by jdrichard in a very kind way...so as for me I have no complaints at all...friendly site.

 

[david]

CapMoy,

I have heard it said that if someone who is not a pilot tries to land a commercial plane they will leave a hole in the ground.  If an amature pilot tries to land a commercial plane they will leave a hole in the ground next to an airport.

[CapMoy]

David

That is a very good one !....lol

 

[CapMoy]

I forgot , I had a good advise from szbalogh amd ro63rto about my ricoh (fake one) ...and the donor movement is on its way !

[Ishima]

Okay I can clearly see once again my point has been completely missed. Elitist arrogance? that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Dissuading people from getting into the hobby? irrelevant. I did try very hard to make myself clear.

I'm requesting an admin delete or lock this thread, I can see this was in fact a mistake to start. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Ishima

[Geo]

This is one of these threads that if discussed across a table would take a  different path.  It is not always easy to put across your exact feelings in a manner that you want, and as such it misconceptions and irritation can result.

Ishima has asked me to lock this thread and I agree.  The last thing that he or any of us wanted, is this to turn into one of these runaway vociferous threads.

 

The thread is now locked!

 

[clockboy]

Agree with Geo 100%. We all start from somewhere & friendly help is the successful format for this forum.