Help with Elgin 674 movement

[Rooster13]

Hi, i need help being a noob, does anyone know how to disassemble an Elgin 674 17 jewel movement, and also how to safely remove the watches hands? I bought the watch and the crown and stem were completely missing. I took the movement out but am baffled (read scared) as to how to proceed from here. I'm even afraid to take the hands off for fear of damaging them. any help would be great 

[WileyDave]

4 hours ago, Rooster13 said:

Hi, i need help being a noob, does anyone know how to disassemble an Elgin 674 17 jewel movement, and also how to safely remove the watches hands? I bought the watch and the crown and stem were completely missing. I took the movement out but am baffled (read scared) as to how to proceed from here. I'm even afraid to take the hands off for fear of damaging them. any help would be great 

There may be a few here who know how to do what your asking, but first, ask yourself, what do I want to do? Do you want to restore/repair? First, you have to source a stem and crown. Elgin made hundreds of thousands of watches and perhaps hundreds of different movements, the 674 cal is only one of them. Removing the hands is the least of your worries, before you start to clean, overhaul and repair a 1940's wristwatch, you must have the tools, time ,patience and parts to complete the process.

Read up on some of the tools and procedures necessary on this website, (and any others you can find). There are those here who have forgotten more than I'll ever know, I'm not ashamed to admit it. There is no magic bullet or quick way to do this. It's time consuming and will test your metal at every turn. I wish more younger folks would take up this hobby and make it a profession.

Your watch was worn every day and depended upon by the owner to keep himself on time for whatever he needed to do. Inside the back of the case, if you examine it closely, you'll find scratchings from previous repairers. It was a way for watch repairmen to verify their work and warranty.

I'm not trying to discourage you from attempting to fix this watch, it's a pretty cool watch and would be a fine piece to repair and wear proudly. But you need to understand that there is more than getting a stem and crown, putting it back in, winding it up and away you go. ( and it requires specific tools). Disassembling, cleaning and oiling and reassembling a watch properly is somewhat of an art. It is not something everyone can do or learn to do. (otherwise there would be more people doing it!)

Your not the first or the last person who wants to make something old work again. There is a great amount of pride that one can say "I fixed this". There is also much that one would need to learn before being successful. This site is a good place to start, plenty of experience and advice. But, you will have to make a commitment on tools, time and $, if you'd like to make this a rewarding experience. Check out the service procedures just to get an idea of what exactly is involved. Best of luck on your decision!

[Rooster13]

56 minutes ago, WileyDave said:

There may be a few here who know how to do what your asking, but first, ask yourself, what do I want to do? Do you want to restore/repair? First, you have to source a stem and crown. Elgin made hundreds of thousands of watches and perhaps hundreds of different movements, the 674 cal is only one of them. Removing the hands is the least of your worries, before you start to clean, overhaul and repair a 1940's wristwatch, you must have the tools, time ,patience and parts to complete the process.

Read up on some of the tools and procedures necessary on this website, (and any others you can find). There are those here who have forgotten more than I'll ever know, I'm not ashamed to admit it. There is no magic bullet or quick way to do this. It's time consuming and will test your metal at every turn. I wish more younger folks would take up this hobby and make it a profession.

Your watch was worn every day and depended upon by the owner to keep himself on time for whatever he needed to do. Inside the back of the case, if you examine it closely, you'll find scratchings from previous repairers. It was a way for watch repairmen to verify their work and warranty.

I'm not trying to discourage you from attempting to fix this watch, it's a pretty cool watch and would be a fine piece to repair and wear proudly. But you need to understand that there is more than getting a stem and crown, putting it back in, winding it up and away you go. ( and it requires specific tools). Disassembling, cleaning and oiling and reassembling a watch properly is somewhat of an art. It is not something everyone can do or learn to do. (otherwise there would be more people doing it!)

Your not the first or the last person who wants to make something old work again. There is a great amount of pride that one can say "I fixed this". There is also much that one would need to learn before being successful. This site is a good place to start, plenty of experience and advice. But, you will have to make a commitment on tools, time and $, if you'd like to make this a rewarding experience. Check out the service procedures just to get an idea of what exactly is involved. Best of luck on your decision!

Hey thanks, the joy is in the journey. I know what this will take, (time, money, ect.) i know my direction i want to take. i just need to know the right tools and a starting point- any knowledge at all so i'm not going into this completely blind. I bought it because it is a project, a piece of history, sexy and deserves to be saved. so much gets lost in our disposable age-i love old watches, always have(cars too) i just need a proper starting point. thank you so much for your advice.

[oldhippy]

What experience do you have with watches and do you have the tools to undertake such a repair?

[Rooster13]

11 hours ago, oldhippy said:

What experience do you have with watches and do you have the tools to undertake such a repair?

 

none really, it's something i always wanted to do. as far as taking just about every other thing in creation apart and repairing, replacing and scratch making parts, from huge to the most delicate. tons of experience. I might find another movement and do the old dual carb trick take one apart leave the other together and take tons of pictures.

[Rooster13]

17 minutes ago, Rooster13 said:

none really, it's something i always wanted to do. as far as taking just about every other thing in creation apart and repairing, replacing and scratch making parts, from huge to the most delicate. tons of experience. I might find another movement and do the old dual carb trick take one apart leave the other together and take tons of pictures.

Hi, yes i bought a complete watch repair kit, one with the press. also i'm looking at ultrasonic cleaners. i've done a bit of research will continue with that. But i get a little upset because i'm coming here for advice and i'm getting an aloof attitude. you asked how much experience i had with watches. I could ask you the same question, when you took your first watch apart how much experience did you have. everyone has a first time for everything. then i had the other gentleman tell me all the thousands of different movements elgin made. I know that but i also know exactly what mine is. so please i'm not trying to insult anyone, yes i'm new to this and inexperienced, but please don't treat me like an idiot, the fact is you never know who you are talking too, what their life is or was. I've come seeking knowledge, all you who have been doing this are the keepers of this knowledge-and knowledge no matter what it is, is a sacred trust. those who have it, can choose to do what they want with it. I guess i just look at learning and such differently, that it is a trust, a duty. and stuff like this, preserving and saving old watches may not in the grand scheme of things seem like much. But it is a dying knowledge, and you are the keepers. sounds corney, but if you think about it, it's the truth. do you pass your wisdom down-or let it die. I digress.

[david]

Rooster13,

While nobody can really tell you how you should learn about watch mechanisms and how to repair them, I can tell you how I started to learn. A few years ago I took the Time Zone watch courses 1,2 and 3. In my view these courses, particularly courses 1 and 2, offered an excellent step by step learning process covering the minimum necessary tools, opening the watch case, extracting the movement, disassembling the movement, explaining the various parts along with their functions, cleaning, reassembly, lubrication, and adjustment. When you finish the course and follow the instructions you will have done all of this to an automatic wind calendar wrist watch movement. There is even a section that covers building up your own watch with components from Otto Frei; if you choose to do so. While its intention is only to be an introductory course, it is that and does an excellent job doing this. It does not cover more advanced procedures such as making and/or modifying  your own watch parts, hair spring vibrating, jewel replacement, pivoting, buffing and polishing, machining and silver soldering, but once you get the basics from that course you will be in a position to improve your skill levels by going to other sources. For me, some of the best of the more advanced sources were the MARK LOVICK, and STEFFEN PAHLOW videos. That said, you will need to acquire a grasp of the basics before jumping in and dealing with more advanced procedures.  

david

Edited January 21, 2017 by david

[adiorio110]

Hi there

I am pretty new to this also and in kind of a rush to get going. My intent was to work on wrist watches, but after getting some advice I decided to start with size 16 and 18 pocket watches (the parts in these are small enough) after I Learn whats what I'll move on to wrist watches. You may want to consider doing the same. I'll fill you in on one thing, when you think you have all the tools you need... guess again, depending on how deep into the rabbit hole you go will be the determining factor.

It is fun though

good luck

Anthony

Edited January 25, 2017 by adiorio110

[Cad101]

Hello rooster I'm afraid the only way to learn is to do. I would put the elgin to one side and find yourself as @adiorio110 said a pocket watch or a few running inexpensive jewelled watch movements from the bay and its just a case of stripping down taking a photo of the movement every time you remove a part. Then reassemble it using the photos as a guide don't worry about lubrication at this point your only practicing getting to grips with your tools the parts and the configuration of how everything works together and hopefully the watch will run when done then do it all over again until you in yourself feel confident enough to either try the elgin or another project we all had to start somewhere and I'd call anyone here a liar if they hadn't made at least one monumental fluff up while doing a repair or service when starting out.

Mick

[adiorio110]

Heres a link to a few catalogs and books and lessons I found. I havent even read most of it myself...I seen it mentioned somewhere and hunted it down so if I need it I have it. I am sure more knowledgeable members have better materials, but your welcome to what I have

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ah-hqgUuod3u1zmRiBCutS1YAX7r

I hear a good catalog to have is: Swigart Illustrated Manual of American Watch Movements I am trying to locate a PDF. If anyone has a copy I would appreciate it.

Also looking for some kind of cross reference for waltham pocket watches, some thing that will tell you what watches shared parts. 

Anthony

[NMarsh]

Hey rooster, I'm fairly new around here as well. I am only a few movements in so I am right around where you are. I will say when I first decided to take the plunge I watched as many YouTube videos as I could. Read through a bunch of walkthroughs for basic movements and then bought up a bunch of cheap watch movements. Did my first one with sub par tools from a super cheap "watch repair kit" from Amazon which made it a whole lot more challenging. I got some decent tools for Christmas, just the basics; drivers, a few steel tweezers, a bronze tweezer, case knife, movement holder, rodico, oilers, and oil ( definitely need to up my oil game, only have moebius 8000 which is really not good as a utilitarian oil) and a basic hand removal tool. I also happened to get "practical watch repair" by Donald de carle which has been really good to slowly work through. If I remember correctly he also has a beginners book that also may be worth looking into. The book lays out really well the tools need, as well as specialty tools once you get further in. It also walks you through procedures of tear down, identification, diagnosis, repair, and oiling . This by no means is a substitute for the great knowledge here but it is great collateral to fall back on. I will say it is a little dense and can get pretty deep into detail about stuff.



Sorry I can't really give you specifics about your movement. I will say most basic movements are pretty similar so you may be able to find a way through on a similar movement. Also practice on junk movements. The likelihood of destroying your first movement is pretty high, because parts are fragile. Hope this helps man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[david]

 The general advice is to always start with a pocket watch. The assumption is that once you get used to looking at the larger pocket watch size parts you can work your way down to the smaller sizes. There is also the issue that wrist watches contain more systems than pocket watches such as a calendar mechanism and an automatic wind mechanism. While starting on pocket size watches  isn't bad advice, the simple fact is that wrist watch movements are much more plentiful and are very inexpensive. Otto Frei offers a good selection of Chinese made wrist watch movements starting at around $16.00 per movement. If you screw one up it is easy to get another one. If you purchase two inexpensive movements, one of the movements can be used as a source of parts. If you screw up and antique pocket watch you may not be able to replace or easily repair it. Finding antique pocket watch parts can be a problem in itself. The down side of working on modern wrist watch movements is many of the parts are small and extremely delicate and can be destroyed if worked on incorrectly or with the wrong tools. 

If I were to give a recommendation to someone starting from scratch it would be to get a few inexpensive Chinese movements and take the Time Zone courses. After completing that the more advanced material in the Watch Repair videos will begin to make a lot more sense.

david