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Replacement of Impulse Jewel on 1895 Elgin

jdrichard

By jdrichard
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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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I just got an 18S 7j 1985 produced Elgin Pocket Watch. The Mainspring was fully wound and the balance was spinning free. I released the Mainspring with a bench key and inserting a small screwdriver into a hole near the winding mechanism. This worked bit when I removes the Balance cock, I found that the impulse jewel was broken. 3bfd522d8e403d3b796e7a74e0d8136c.jpg628703b9c0ca9f2bef177ea42e769983.jpgc3eb5703c5d85286af37cf03f3b40dc8.jpg7cb8bc5606efec5ae2771c41b0b194a8.jpg

Now I need to remove the roller table and then remove the jewel and shellac in a new one. I will document the process with updates under this topic. Let's hope for success.

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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Not the easiest of repairs. Make sure you have the right type/shape of impulse pin, you will know what I mean when the old has been removed and the hole is nice and clean, careful with the length, you need it to engage in the pallet fork but you don't want it dragging. Good luck and keep us posted with your progress.   

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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Not the easiest of repairs. Make sure you have the right type/shape of impulse pin, you will know what I mean when the old has been removed and the hole is nice and clean, careful with the length, you need it to engage in the pallet fork but you don't want it dragging. Good luck and keep us posted with your progress.   


Any tips on determining the length?

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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96a08bd1fef981e42a1d6970237f1e03.jpg
Step 1 - Set up Roller Table Remover tool
b349008c5eb22bc648588337d781eaad.jpg
Step 2. - Remove Hairspring
2c05d3bee24296e3cc2f70f37f82aa83.jpg
Step3 - Place Roller Table with Balance onto tool
21f7c4050494e9e5c492ae4848ebc3e1.jpg
Step 4 - Tighten tool onto Balance staff and align Stake over pivot (critical not to damage pivot)
Step 5 - TAP out stake and balance leaving Roller Table behind
66f7d6ab7b948af6475ce6c7d990044c.jpg
Step 6 - Place Roller Table into Combination tool and heat to loosen old broken jewel in old shellac.
8735f9ce58073868cb77afe098c84c88.jpg23d209f6fdbb3f6e1d5f1ba20f97fc92.jpg
Step 7 - Clean Roller/Impulse Jewel hole in Table 6e698c3b50913cc5bab8f3ef94a7271c.jpg
Step 8 - Using Vigorous Roller Jewel Gauge, measure size of palate fork opening (was 0.46)
c07696e84b85ca984538589bd461cc60.jpgbec5c3cec120283e598f46378dec73ea.jpg
7677bcde75b63007abe3b86433dbf8a3.jpg
0e05d6fee80426a0b3372148d14c1c2a.jpg
Step 9 - Measure Gauge (just in case)1ce37d1d02ad1b3679b1b7f40a82a427.jpg
Step 10 - Order Jewel (or find)
More to follow........


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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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13 hours ago, jdrichard said:

96a08bd1fef981e42a1d6970237f1e03.jpg
Step 1 - Set up Roller Table Remover tool
b349008c5eb22bc648588337d781eaad.jpg
Step 2. - Remove Hairspring
2c05d3bee24296e3cc2f70f37f82aa83.jpg
Step3 - Place Roller Table with Balance onto tool
21f7c4050494e9e5c492ae4848ebc3e1.jpg
Step 4 - Tighten tool onto Balance staff and align Stake over pivot (critical not to damage pivot)
Step 5 - TAP out stake and balance leaving Roller Table behind
66f7d6ab7b948af6475ce6c7d990044c.jpg
Step 6 - Place Roller Table into Combination tool and heat to loosen old broken jewel in old shellac.
8735f9ce58073868cb77afe098c84c88.jpg23d209f6fdbb3f6e1d5f1ba20f97fc92.jpg
Step 7 - Clean Roller/Impulse Jewel hole in Table 6e698c3b50913cc5bab8f3ef94a7271c.jpg
Step 8 - Using Vigorous Roller Jewel Gauge, measure size of palate fork opening (was 0.46)
c07696e84b85ca984538589bd461cc60.jpgbec5c3cec120283e598f46378dec73ea.jpg
7677bcde75b63007abe3b86433dbf8a3.jpg
0e05d6fee80426a0b3372148d14c1c2a.jpg
Step 9 - Measure Gauge (just in case)1ce37d1d02ad1b3679b1b7f40a82a427.jpg
Step 10 - Order Jewel (or find)
More to follow........


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Excellent walk through. I can't do better than that

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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Hi  jdrichard

if the fork opening was 0.46 I just wondered what size jewel you would fit ?

P.S. I like the zippo lighter working as a spirit lamp !

nice job  [emoji4]


I ordered a 46 given the gauge size was actually 0.467 and there was a smidgen if play when I placed the gauge into the fork. Hope I am good.


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94marconi Watch Enthusiast

94marconi

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Excellent write up as always jd. :) How much play should there be between the pallet fork and the jewel? Could you measure the broken bit you removed from the roller table?

Love the digital mike...so much more finesse than the calipers.

Wife is going to Mexico next week and Xmas is done with so I look forward to my balance staff project. Your Posts have me chomping at the bit lol

Ron

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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Excellent write up as always jd. [emoji4] How much play should there be between the pallet fork and the jewel? Could you measure the broken bit you removed from the roller table?

Love the digital mike...so much more finesse than the calipers.

Wife is going to Mexico next week and Xmas is done with so I look forward to my balance staff project. Your Posts have me chomping at the bit lol

Ron


Usually if you measure a 0.46 gap you would order a 0.44 jewel. But my measuring gauge accounts for this and tells you the size to order. Last time I used a wire end to measure the fork gap because I did not have the tool.


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94marconi Watch Enthusiast

94marconi

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Not to stray off topic jd, but just a quick question. You have great lighting in your shots. Artificial or natural?

Also i have heard of D shaped impulse jewels is this the case of yours? and if so are they D shaped in the hole in the roller table or are they all round where they are shellacked into the table and D shaped or round above the table? The bit that was removed from the table was not sufficient to measure for diameter? or was it not a representation of the jewel size above the table. Or just not measurable? 

Of course any chance I get to use the tools I have collected and restored only adds to the hobby, which I am sure you will agree...:)

Ron
 

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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The jewel is D shaped and the hole is the table is round. This is normal for American pocket watches. I did not try to measure the jewel I removed. It was too small. Best to get a gauge and measure the fork opening. I have successfully changed a jewel in a 12S 21 Jewel Illinois pocket watch.



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94marconi Watch Enthusiast

94marconi

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I suppose I could answer my own questions and look at my own project...My Waltham has a D shaped hole in the roller table contrary to jd's round hole. Would not a round hole be a weak point of the jewel? When you say this is normal for American pocket watches is my 1892 model an exception or are Walthams in general an exception. My 1883 model Waltham is in storage so I can not compare. Just curious...

Can't wait to see the shellac process of installing the new jewel :)

 

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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That's why I mentioned in my previous post to make sure you have the right type, if the hole is round you need a round impulse pin, what was there before was wrong.


I'm sure your correct, but try and find one.

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jdrichard Distinguished Member

jdrichard

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again amazing to see what knowledge is under the members, :Bravo:  JD


Thanks. I have used a D shaped jewel in a round hole before and have had no issues. The shellac fills the open space in the roller table hole. The geometry of the D shape impulse pin and the receiving palate fork opening is such that the back of a round impulse jewel would never touch the fork at ant time while traversing through the fork opening. Thoughts?

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