Raketa 2609HA Problems

[richard]

Hi Everyone,

It's ages since my last post, but I have been making slow progress with my watch repairs.

At present I am practicing my skills on a Sekonda with calibre 2609HA. In fact I have 4 similar watches with  the  same movement..

! and 2 are untouched by me and are working fairly well. The result on my Timegragh machine are as follows: No1  RATE -13s/d AMP284 B/E 0.1 PAR 18000- No 2 RATE +7s/d AMP297 B/E 0.2 PAR 18000. At least this proves that my Timegragh is working correctly.

Now we come to the other two watches which were not working. I have dismantled cleaned and lubricatd etc and reassembled them. Both are now working, but the Timegragh readings are absolutely terrible: No 3 RATE-206s/d AMP 170 B/E 7.6  52*  PAR 18000: No 4 RATE-199s/d AMP 181 B/E 9.9  52* PAR 18000.

I removed the balance from No3 and installed it onto a spare plate, this enabled me to roughly line up the balance jewel wih the pallet pins. Re-installed it onto No 3, tried a little adjustment using the two levers, sadly with no acceptable improvement on my Timegragh readings. So I purchased a new balance complete, which I have re-installed and it doesn't matter how hard I try I still can't get much of an improvement with my Timegraph readings. Incidently when I say I have re-assembled  No 3 & No 4 after servicing that is not including the dial and hands.

Anybody got any suggestions as to what to try next.

Thanks, Happy new year. Richard.

[JohnR725]

 

On 12/31/2016 at 6:03 AM, richard said:

No 3 RATE-206s/d AMP 170 B/E 7.6  52*  PAR 18000: No 4 RATE-199s/d AMP 181 B/E 9.9  52* PAR 18000.

What was the condition of the watches in before you disassemble them?

It be nice to see a picture of both nonrunning watches preferably centered over the balance wheel so I can see where the stud and regulator are.

Then normally we would be more concerned about the amplitude because it's way too low. It should be over 200 before you doing anything else or even concerned about anything else. But as you are trying to put the watch in beat conceivably your grossly out of adjustment we should put things back roughly where they are then we can go back to looking at the amplitude getting it up.

A floating stud makes it really easy to put the watch in beat but also makes it really easy not to get them in beat. They usually very sensitive and there's no plus or minus so it's easy to go past where you're supposed to be. So initially visually putting it where it's supposed to be works the best. Then the timing machine to get it perfect but right now it doesn't have to be perfect it just has to be close. Then we can see what we can do with amplitude. So I see you took the balance out and used a different plate it's usually best to do it on the watch because conceivably there may be differences.

Then it also be nice to see a image of the timing machine as it may be other things going on that you're not aware of.

So first link we've covered putting a watch in beat it should give you an idea what you're looking for. Second link pictures of a watch like yours hopefully.

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/3280-setting-a-watch-in-beat-7s26-seiko/

ttp://17jewels.info/movements-en/movements-r-en/movements-r-raketa-en/1070-r-raketa-2628-h.html

[richard]

John, thanks very much for your help. We spent a very enjoyable few hours in Seattle in 2013, on our way to visit my sister in Kamloops B.C.

I've decided to focus on watch No 3 from my original poste. It wasn't working before or after I serviced it, so I changed the pallet for a spare and it started OK. The original pallet looked a bit scratched under close inspection. However although it was working the timegragh figures were dreadful. I then changed the balance for a brand new one but not the balance cock. Not much improvement.

Originally I placed the movement directly on the timing machine. Now I put an old back on the machine first and place the movement onto it. This has helped  so I think something may have been rubbing [maybe the cannon pinion on the spring]. Anyway when I carry out tests  in the dial up  then the dial down position  the results are hugely different. Amp varies from 146 to 250 And the beat error 0.5 to 7.6. This watch  has clearly got some major problems which I will have to investigate. Happy days.

Thanks Richard. 

[rogart63]

2 hours ago, richard said:

John, thanks very much for your help. We spent a very enjoyable few hours in Seattle in 2013, on our way to visit my sister in Kamloops B.C.

I've decided to focus on watch No 3 from my original poste. It wasn't working before or after I serviced it, so I changed the pallet for a spare and it started OK. The original pallet looked a bit scratched under close inspection. However although it was working the timegragh figures were dreadful. I then changed the balance for a brand new one but not the balance cock. Not much improvement.

Originally I placed the movement directly on the timing machine. Now I put an old back on the machine first and place the movement onto it. This has helped  so I think something may have been rubbing [maybe the cannon pinion on the spring]. Anyway when I carry out tests  in the dial up  then the dial down position  the results are hugely different. Amp varies from 146 to 250 And the beat error 0.5 to 7.6. This watch  has clearly got some major problems which I will have to investigate. Happy days.

Thanks Richard. 

I always put the movement in the movement holder when i put it in the timegrapher? Never directly on the timing machine. And if i have it mounted in the case i make sure the crown is against the fixed mount? Seams to work better that way. 

Make sure that the hairspring don't touch the balance cook? it could be very tricky to set the height of the hairspring stud? And that the endcaps are right way up? 

Have you checked if it could  magnetic. Had problem this week with a magnetic balance cook or hairspring on a Omega 610 . Every time i turned it dial down it suck the hairspring to the balance cook? Making it run very strange. 

[JohnR725]

18 minutes ago, rogart63 said:

I always put the movement in the movement holder when i put it in the timegrapher? Never directly on the timing machine. And if i have it mounted in the case i make sure the crown is against the fixed mount? Seams to work better that way. 

I usually prefer to put the movement directly on the holder of the timegrapher as it gets a better contact for me. If you using a movement holder just make sure you making good physical contact with the metal pins that pick up the sound. Occasionally with movement holders you can hold it in such a way that you do not get a good contact.

Then for magnetism I once did a comparison of the Chinese 1000 timegrapher versus a Swiss timing machine. The person who loaned me his timing machine also gave me his watches that he had concern over. So the various watches were placed on the timing machine then both microphones simultaneously were holding on to the watch. Images attached of before and after for the effect of magnetism. Normally in watch repair you wouldn't see this because you always are using a demagnetiser to solve that problem.

3 hours ago, richard said:

cannon pinion on the spring

I saw this and was pondering what you are trying to tell me then with the discussion of holding it dawns on may you do need to hold the watch correctly in the holder. I'm attaching some images of holding watches. If it's a case stopwatch you can place it on the bottom of the microphone just be careful sometimes pocket watches might have a habit of popping out especially when you rotate the microphone around.  So you notice in the image showing a comparison of both microphones there's a little edge at the top of the pins that you can Place the main plate of the watch on. Usually the main plate is nice shape around square whatever it will fit the notches. This way you'll get maximum pick up into the microphone. Which is not picking up the audio Sound it's picking up the vibration. Then if the watch is held properly can rotate it upside down but usually on the Hamilton deck watch like this I have my hand under it this is a really heavy watch. The Chinese microphones will not open up big enough to hold one of these. Then even if it could the killer spring would be bad the Swiss machine has a constant force across its entire opening But this was machine costs sizable quantity more than the Chinese machine is very functional.

So running out the door When I come back and look at your other stuff later I did have some other thoughts.

 

[rogart63]

Has work for me like this. Just a dummy movement? 

[Folkvisor]

Hi

I have a Raketa 2628.H movement that needs a minute wheel. 

I have not been able to get one from any supply companies in Canada or the US. And the 2628.H movements on eBay never show the whole minute wheel so I hesitate to buy a movement with the same problem.

Any ideas?

Dave