Jump to content

Schatz Glasenuhr Watch Clock Repait


AlexanderB

Recommended Posts

Thanks, Cousins also does have Hermle barrels. It might be the case that it is compatible with the Schatz barrel. Looking into that tonight. Getting the bushings from Cousins is also easy.

In the meantime I try to use the bell barrel for the clock to see if it makes a difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before you go buy bushes or make them check the pivots to see if they are worn, if they are you will need to fix them first and them measure the diameter of the repaired pivots to make sure you don't end up with bushes that have a too large pivot hole.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They certainly can cause a clock not to run. With worn bushes the wheel gears do not mesh correctly either too shallow or too deep. If not sure remove the barrel and just have the wheels installed and see if they spin freely.  I follow this guy a lot.  See how he re-bushes. You will not have the customised tools he has but he explains really well the techniques required to fit a bushing successfully.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched this video a few day ago, most of how he goes about the work is wrong, for starters you do not re-bush from the outside of the plate, you re-bush from inside, if you use the correct reamer it will automatically  find the center of the whole. To be fair to him I don't think he was well when he made this video, he is about to say rat tailed file and changes it to small file. He also says we are on the inside of the plate, we always put the bushing in from the inside of the plate, he is putting the bush in from the out side of the plate which is wrong, a bush has a slight taper, doing it his way the bush could easily work its way out of the plate. He calls the bush a broach, a broach is another name for a reamer, The way he pushes the bush in is the wrong way round he is pushing in the bush by the thickest end not the thinnest,  the proud of the bush should be on the outside and is taken down to form the  oil sink. After he has used the burr, he says we have got our oil sink, but its on the inside of the plate. He even tests the wheel to the new fitted bush from the wrong side of the plate. He starts to hand broach it from the wrong side, you do not broach from both sides, The pivot runs on the complete pivot, not on the high spot in the middle as he says, if it has a high spot it is barrel shaped and needs turning down,  A very very bad video indeed.:pulling-hair-out:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all. I lost faith in repairing the clock. It could as well be the case that there is more to repair. So I stop here, assemble the few parts I disassembled and sell it. In Germany we have a saying: don't throw good money after bad. I rather concentrate on more rewarding projects.

Source: http://www.woodentimes.com/PRIMUS/Primus.html

Just need some proper wood and start my CNC mill. Sounds more rewarding to me.

Primusbackground.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there is a lot of mistakes made re bushing a clock plate. i have a few clock that were bushed wrong and do not keep running.  i suspect that an elongated hole was not "re located properly" ,but, back to the spring barrel.   that double strike ships clock requires a  good deal of power from that spring barrel.  i think the spring barrel is the first thing to correct..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I watched this video a few day ago, most of how he goes about the work is wrong, for starters you do not re-bush from the outside of the plate, you re-bush from inside, if you use the correct reamer it will automatically  find the center of the whole. To be fair to him I don't think he was well when he made this video, he is about to say rat tailed file and changes it to small file. He also says we are on the inside of the plate, we always put the bushing in from the inside of the plate, he is putting the bush in from the out side of the plate which is wrong, a bush has a slight taper, doing it his way the bush could easily work its way out of the plate. He calls the bush a broach, a broach is another name for a reamer, The way he pushes the bush in is the wrong way round he is pushing in the bush by the thickest end not the thinnest,  the proud of the bush should be on the outside and is taken down to form the  oil sink. After he has used the burr, he says we have got our oil sink, but its on the inside of the plate. He even tests the wheel to the new fitted bush from the wrong side of the plate. He starts to hand broach it from the wrong side, you do not broach from both sides, The pivot runs on the complete pivot, not on the high spot in the middle as he says, if it has a high spot it is barrel shaped and needs turning down,  A very very bad video indeed.:pulling-hair-out:

Wish I had not put the vid up now.!!!!!!!  The point I was trying to show was the importance of getting the hole for the new bushing in the correct position. I never spotted he was putting in the bush from the wrong side.

SORRY 

Del

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a final look at the clock. After powering off the mainspring I removed the escapement which was relatively simple. I then powered up again and it stuck again. No movement whatsoever. 

I then took a pegwood and forced the pivot of the barrel adjacent wheel down in order to move to the other end of the elongated hole. And the wheels started moving! I was able to reproduce this behavior on several occasions. I may look into re-bushing only this pivot hold. My concern is that I am not able to drill it right, i.e. the drill finds its way towards the wrong end.

Any ideas?

Cheers Alexander

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a final look at the clock. After powering off the mainspring I removed the escapement which was relatively simple. I then powered up again and it stuck again. No movement whatsoever. 

I then took a pegwood and forced the pivot of the barrel adjacent wheel down in order to move to the other end of the elongated hole. And the wheels started moving! I was able to reproduce this behavior on several occasions. I may look into re-bushing only this pivot hold. My concern is that I am not able to drill it right, i.e. the drill finds its way towards the wrong end.

Any ideas?

Cheers Alexander


Your would do better with a reamer rather than a drill

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again thank you all. 

I was torn between repairing and selling. I eventually decided to assemble the clock and sell it on ebay. I don't have the proper tooks to get it done right. I still have my 7733 waiting for service as the next challenge. I'd rather service / restore another old watch from the 60ies before.

I learned a lot from this:

  1. These 70ies Schatz Clocks had a better reputation (at least to me) than they deserve. The one I got must be considered crap.
  2. Repairing clocks is yet another story compared to watches.
  3. I need proper tools to get the job done the way I'd like to (the right way).
  4. Clocks have a significant wear if the material is poor and need quite some machining. You just don't know in advance if you're as inexperienced as I am.

Since the only thing that I don't have enough, is time, I'll stick with watches.

Cheers Alexander

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, vinn3 said:

a drill will do a good job if used properly.    it is essential to "control feed and speed" - etc..

Anyone who is just starting out on clock repairs should never use any type of machinery on a clock. Irreparable damage can be caused in a flash, in all my years as a clockmaker I never ever drilled the plate to re-bush. Hand held reamers is the only safe way to re-bush as I have said that way you have complete control, if you follow the correct procedure nothing can go wrong, you take your time with the repair, also you yourself can feel the cut and you will be aware of how much the reamer is cutting a machine can’t, the difference in the type of brass is phenomenal. I have worked on many high value clocks and you won’t believe how hard the brass can be, some will even take the edge of a reamer and the brass just splinters away. A machine drill can be very handy in a work shop but for re-bushing don’t even think about it. Not even one with a slow feed control.

Edited by oldhippy
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a little more to add to what I said in my previous post.

The brass used in antique clocks and I’m talking about clocks after 1900 but before. You might find a description that says it has never been repaired, that is not luck that is because it was made of top quality brass and steel both were much harder than today. That would apply to the spring wound or fusee wound clocks. Weight driven clocks are wonderful but they all have a common fault and that is the weights, when the clock has some wear and tear the clock is forced to carry on working, that’s why it is common to find a lot of damage in weight driven clocks, in particular the 8-day Long Case or Grandfather clock, yes they are the same. Re-bushing and worn pivots are the main problem with these, worn teeth also occur but not too often. 30 hour Long Case movements nearly everything will be worn that is because people do not wind them correctly they just pull on the chain, you are meant to take the weight yourself and pull on the chain this prevents wear and tear in the movement. I hope you find this helpful.       

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...