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smiths empire 3 train westminster finally running


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Well after nearly a year of searching and trying different things I have finally got the grandmother clock movement working again ( well the going train ) I was stumped when the main spring let go and bent the first wheel arbor and bent 3 teeth as well. I asked my local watch/clock man if he had one that I could by from his spares but none were forth coming, I eventually thought about cutting out the bent teeth after straightening them didn't work ( snapped ) even with heat, and then cut out the same amount of teeth from a scrap movement and solder them in place, a good idea but I needed a wheel with the same measurements so the teeth would be the same.

This I found impossible to do due to not being able to find the same size wheel, i ddon't remember how many ebay pictures I en.arged of clock wheel job lots to count the teeth on each wheel in the photos haha, I found a clock wheel cutting service in Malta on ebay but they wouldn't mount a new wheel due to the arbor being bent, so I got the arbor on the lathe and got straight to within half a thou and thought I'd ask the Malta people again. Whilst on ebay I saw a movement for parts ( rusty and looking unloved ) £14 secured the movement and it is the same as the one I have just about, I grabbed the first wheel measured and counted and it was the same so a good clean and fitted it to my movement and she's been going for a week now.

Tommorow im off to my watch/clock man to be taught how to re bush the plates as there are about 6 that need doing most on the chiming trains and 1 on the going train, then once that's done, I have no idea how long the bushings will take but after that I'll be re fitting all the striking mechanism etc etc, is there anything that I should do to set this movement up to chime correctly, I have heard if you leave them for two hours they self set them selves, is this correct, obviously id have to set the hands to the corresponding hour chime to start with then after that do I just leave it for the said 2 hours?

I'm more of a watch man so this clock stuff is all abit new to me, (can't beat trying to get 3 trains lined up can you) so any help greatly appreciated cheers

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Congratulations in getting this far. If you can set the movement up somehow without putting it in the case then do so. This will save time and you have the advantage of making adjustments without removing from the case each time. You can buy clock movement holders or make your own, ask you chap what he does. From what you are saying I don't think you have taken apart and put together one of these before. Start by just putting the strike side in and getting the wheels lined up as they need to go in a certain way in order for the strike to work correctly. When you have mastered that do the same with the chime side, then you will have the knowhow in putting the three trains together. I always made sure everything lined up correctly on the outside even though it will right it's self I just wanted to get it working A S A P. As you say you will need help when it comes to re-bushing, just make sure all the pivots are good, the type of steel used in these movements is quite soft. If you need any more help just ask.   

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Cheers guys, old hippy as for the rebushing it didn't happen, my "man" said that they weren't showing enough wear to worry about, that and the fact that the "wear" was on the strike and chime trains and that the going train had been running for a week he didn't think it needed bushing. I still think it does but I shall bow down to his knowledge for now.

As for setting it up out the case that's easy as the case is 240 miles away from me! I have resembled the movement and yep you've guessed it I have absolutely no movement on either chime or strike trains, I need some help in what I need to do setting up wise if that's possible please. I reassembled it as per the photos that I took during disassembly but nothing is happening apart from the going train, thats running fine.

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It certainly was a very dirty clock. I have not worked on a westminster smiths but I dare say the principles are the same. The snail wheel & cam set up in the centre is to regulate the chimes to the correct hours. The shortest step on the snail wheel is for 1 o,clock longest for 12 o,clock. I presume the wheel to the right is to regulate the quarters/half & hours. On many of the clocks I have worked on some of the wheels have pips/marks for alignment. These two parts need to be in the correct sequence with each other. If you have not any marks to guide you you will have to tinker to get it in sink. Old Hippy will be the guy to help for sure.

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What photo 2 is showing me is the chime and strike are both working at the same time which should not happen. If the chime is working the strike side should be locked and vice versa. On the chime train is a wheel with a slot on it and a lever drops down to stop the train from going, the locking plate should be in place and also locked, when it is locked the wheel with a pin next to the fly should be about a  quarter from the fly pinion away no more, this is called the warning this happens each time before the clock chimes and the hammers should never lift.  You will get tripping if these parts are not in the correct position. Make sure you have this right first.  

Edited by oldhippy
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Old hippy many thanks for the reply, I will see if any of what you have just typed makes any sense to me when I go and have a look at the movement, I do get the warning at 5 minutes to the hour but  nothing else on any other times it should chime.

How would I go about doing what what you have just said in practice please, this being my first clock experience (watches more my ground) cheers

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quarter

13 minutes ago, transporter said:

Old hippy many thanks for the reply, I will see if any of what you have just typed makes any sense to me when I go and have a look at the movement, I do get the warning at 5 minutes to the hour but  nothing else on any other times it should chime.

How would I go about doing what what you have just said in practice please, this being my first clock experience (watches more my ground) cheers

The warning should happen just before every time the clock chimes. Move the minute hand slowly fore each quarter and tell me what happens, remember move the hand from its center not the tip as this could bend the hand or even snap it off. Behind  the locking plate and this is all one piece is a little grove that grove where it is the deepest should be in line with the chime train wheel with the slot in it.

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20 minutes ago, transporter said:

Would any of the info in the pdf from clockboy be of assitant to me? I've just had a look through it up quickly and some things are making some sense ie names of parts

Yes very much. I've just had a quick look and its very good. Thanks clockboy for the info. I think this is going to be a bit of a test for our friend transporter.

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My final question for now guys, am I going to have to split the plates again to get this working, or can I just drop out the barrels to allow me to spin any wheels to different positions if needed, or can all the adjustments be done purely by all the cams and levers without the need for more work?

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1 hour ago, transporter said:

My final question for now guys, am I going to have to split the plates again to get this working, or can I just drop out the barrels to allow me to spin any wheels to different positions if needed, or can all the adjustments be done purely by all the cams and levers without the need for more work?

The only thing you need to do is make sure the two wheels next to the fly wheels have there pins in the correct place and on the strike side the hammer lift is clear from the star wheel, meaning the star wheel makes one complete turn in that turn it lifts the hammer once and falls without lifting again. 

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I don,t think you can remove the mainspring barrels without splitting the plate. It might be worth you marking where the wheels are positioned at present before your moves. When I do this I use a marker pen that can be rubbed off afterwards. i have not worked on many Westminster clocks & I just got them working by trial & error but I am sure if you follow Old Hippy,s guidance you won,t go far wrong.

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18 minutes ago, clockboy said:

I don,t think you can remove the mainspring barrels without splitting the plate. It might be worth you marking where the wheels are positioned at present before your moves. When I do this I use a marker pen that can be rubbed off afterwards. i have not worked on many Westminster clocks & I just got them working by trial & error but I am sure if you follow Old Hippy,s guidance you won,t go far wrong.

Let all the springs down. Unscrew the small plates around the clicks, remove and this will reveal slits in the plate and can then remove the barrels. Movements like this clockboy saves a lot of time if the spring needs to be replaced.

 

One thing I will ask is a photo of the chime side of the movement as I can't remember what its like.

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Cheers guys, although I'm taking in what you are both saying, I'm struggling a little to put names to parts and how to set them up correctly, old hippy, you said that both the chime and strike are working at the same time, at the moment all I get is a warning click and nothing else, neither of the chiming trains move at all. 

I read on that PDF of click it's abit where the minute hand needs to be in line with the long cam of the centre cam, is the correct?

ill post a couple of pictures so hopefully you can both tell me what position wheels need to be in and their respective names etc etc, I won't have much time today on it as I spent all day yesterday tinkering on watches so wifey gets me today, but will be looking at it next week.

all these pictures are from before the strip, will put after strip ones up next

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